EVE General Discussion

Should've shown her a fully fit thorax with hardners and everything. She would've considered :)

Here a lot grounds why, first people love to play fantasy games because somtime they want feel as strong - mighty warriors, assasins, thiefs in (old style) mages etc ( we still got forgotten primitive instinct and somtime we want reacticivate it and we have needs to cut enemy head with powerfull axe or sword) People want escape form reality and travel to old times whre freedom, no taxes, no mc donald, no big politics etc... Personaly i like games where i have to deal with middle ages or ancient ages, and i dont talk about WOW or dancing elves, somtime people want escape form future and lazors.

Second reason SF fans are split betwen difirent SF themes, some are fans of start trek , star wars, other love play other sf games and they are focused on own hobby, for example hardcore Star Wars fans never join EvE because they got own hobby and they "sacrifice to it" even they love SF themes they stay on one product.

Adding to what Cloned S0ul described so well, EVE is simply not a game for many mainstream MMO players who want instant gratification, reward and power. To have those in EVE you have to fight hard to get them and fight even harder to keep them. Other fantasy MMO games offer what their players want, at the cost of short-lived servers when compared to the likes of EVE with a relatively small, but constant playerbase.

Those same MMO players obtain items of power and never actually get to lose them. Their game stagnates, even with their limited version of PVP, there is very little semblance of the circle of creation and destruction of items. Not so with EVE. You get blown up, you're pretty sure to lose everything you had with you at the time. Most Fantasy MMO players simply cannot accept that.

If EVE is ever changed to be other than what it is, you could probably then start making predictions about "EVE is dying".

For now, the nature of creation and destruction is alive and well in EVE. As long as one does not outperform the other for extended periods, then EVE lives on.

OP:


1) relatively poor advertising. The only time I hear of EVE ever is from EVE emails/EVE sites and from EVE players. Not once have I seen an ad for it on some random site not directly related to EVE. Doesn't mean they don't exist...

2) the game isn't for everyone. A lot of people enjoy the level through grind method and the limited style of other MMOs.

3) when you first get to EVE, it can be overwhelming. Especially if coming from a simpler MMO. Biggest question I get when in the rookie systems is "What do I do now?" because it isn't very clear for the noobie.

4) probably some other reasons that I can't bother thinking of.


Oh and in regards to playing with Elves, its cause WoW is addicting and sucks your soul when you first start. Been trying to get my BF away from it for years...

So the fact that so much of the travel is restricted around the bottlenecks full of gankers/griefers.

Question is, then, without gate and station camping, then what would low sec and 0.0 pvp be then?

Simple...

There's no avatar for the player to experience the game with - and No, captains quarters doesn't count, not least because hardly anyone ever uses it. A lot of people love avatars, I hear. And 'Walking in Stations' is a must for them.

Until there is a fully fledged 3rd person avatar based game within EVE, subscriber numbers will grow only slightly each year.

The challenge for CCP is how to develop that, without bloating the number of staff to the point where CCP starts losing money.

Heroes never die, they just fade away. Because they don't risk anything.

Sadly, in EVE the concept of risk has dumbed down the player so much that its ok to throw away some cheap fit ship of your own to cause massive loss to another guy who may have just started the game 3 weeks ago for example. For one guy, that 2 million fit destroyer is nothing...but some newbie who just got his retriever it was a huge investment and suddenly its gone. Now after all that work, its just gone in seconds what took weeks to aquire...while the first guy lost in seconds what took minutes to reaquire.

It doesn't bother you that you lost something, but it bother the other guy. Because YOU DIDN'T LOSE SOMETHING (you dumbed down the risk to a narrow metric of loss aimed at the other guy). It was tossed aside like a burger wrapper. Now, if EVE had a more universal loss metric then yeah everyone would feel

BECAUSE YOU CAN LOSE-Ordais

Which is why I would love to see SP loss everytime a ship is lost as a universal metric of losing, not just T3. You should never just throw away a ship like a burger wrapper, because you don't care about the paper surrounding the juicy beef sanwich in the middle (you would be pissed if you tossed the sanwich you could not replace). If you engaged some dude in a rifter and he was flying a T2, but you lost that rifter...goodbye SP and now the loss is felt. If you engaged a rifter while flying a T2 and you lost the T2, good by SP and now the loss is felt. You gank a hulk in a catalyst causing him to lose SP in the hulk, you too will lose SP to CONCORD and both will feel a loss of SP (but you had better have a good reason for the SP loss as something else was more valuable). Try to take on a particular mission in some cheap fit ship and lose it to serps while flying with explosive / EM resists...good by SP and a loss is felt where you now fly with the correct hardeners.

What I am saying, is that SP felt should be the standard because every player is human and nobody wants to lose the time invesment. Everything else loses value over time as you are more then able to replace it but not everyone else is able to replace it as quickly as you...except int the case of SP which is a set time to how much you can get an hour and how you planned accordingly

Here goes...this is for me personally, by the way.

1. Slow training/leveling speed. Yes, I realize this is a slow paced game, and you set long term goals and blah blah blah. But in a nutshell what it means is that it will take most people months before they can start having any fun/making serious ISK. Yes, yes, I know, you can PvP on day one and all that bull. Create a new character with 500 SP, put him in a frigate and go PvP against someone with 40 mil SP in a well-fitted AF and let me know how that goes for ya...

By comparison, most other MMOs, an average player would be hitting endgame around that time. That is, very few things in the game world aside from other players and mobs/bosses designed to be fought by groups would hold a challenge to you, and you are able to effectively use all weapons and armors for your chosen class, and have all tools at your disposal. Whereas in EVE you need about 3 months of training just to max out drones and nothing else.

The time commitment this game requires is what kills it for most folks. Not PLAY time commitment, but just time commitment before you can do things. I talked to people who tried EVE, and most of them quit around the transition time between a Cruiser and Battleship. The amount of training needed to get a decent large tank going, and train large weapons of choice is really too much for most people to just sit and wait through. Or worse, grind through.

2. This brings us to a second point - missions, the equivalent of most MMOs' quests. I can't say for certain that most people do at least some missioning when they start, though I'm sure CCP has enough data about that. Me personally, missioning seemed like a natural progression after the initial tutorial. And this is the part where the game falls flat down on its face. As soon as you realize that missions are totally random and that you can be given the same mission over and over, you immediately see it for what it is - brainless, undisguised grind. Yes, most MMOs have grind/kill quests, but at least they go through the trouble of trying to disguise them. EVE does no such thing. It is totally possible to get two In the Midst of Deadspace mission chains back to back, and what that happened my reaction was, and I quote, "Eeeeeewwww...."

Missions themselves are easy. Put on a tank that can handle the incoming DPS, and it doesn't matter what you do, you really can't fail. If your tank handled 800 DPS and the whole room can only muster 600, it doesn't matter how bad you are, it is mathematically impossible for you to fail. In the meantime, even in the simplest of MMOs, it is entirely possible to do your best and still die. Good example would be the furbolg cave in WoW, where the bears not only heal themselves and eachother, but also run for help and there's randomly patrolling enemies as well. Get yourself in a bad spot and fail to stop a runner, and you're dead. Kept you on your toes. And this was TRIVIAL level 5 content. But instead of this, in EVE we get waves and waves of ships, that come at you with the dumbest AI imaginable, no offense. This is doubly sad since sleeper AI is already in the game and is a significant improvement.

Anyway, I felt the missions were a joke - exact same mission repeated over and over, nothing changing, identical spawns each time, same pay each time, etc. Silly, undisguised grind. Yes, don't say it, I realize I don't have to run missions. But look at it from an average MMO players' perspective. it is a natural progression for most people who started playing MMOs in the past 8 years or so to level through questing/missions, rather than grind (ratting in EVE). And for someone who isn't buying PLEX to turn into ISK, and only has 500 SP, there's not much choice - rat, mission, mine. You don't have the capital to trade yet, or skills to haul significant volumes or manufacture. And we all know what mining is like. I'm not saying it's any more fun to harvest in other MMOs, but it usually involves more traveling (where you get to see the beautiful scenery vs EVE's unchanging skybox) and shorter actual harvesting time.

3. The UI. This game is rightly perceived as a very, very complex game. And it is, it really is. One of the deepest, most complex MMOs I ever played. BUT, much of this perceived complexity comes from shoddy UI. Again, no offense. Remember when this game was getting a 6/10 in reviews? Many of the complaints were about the horrific UI that made people cry. And while it has improved, it is still NOWHERE near close enough to being reasonable.

What I mean is, consider a basic thing like looting a kill. In some MMOs, you can right-click a corpse, and the game would automatically loot the contents. Other games go even further - right-click one corpse, and the game will automatically loot every corpse you have rights to in the area around you. Now compare that to EVE, where not only you have to loot wrecks one at a time and be insanely close to them, but there's not even a hotkey to loot all. You have to mouse over to the loot all button and press it. And until recently, even this...how shall I put this nicely...this "luxury" didn't even exist and you had to select and drag and drop things from one window to another. What is this?! Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss (1992)?

What's more - suppose you wish to loot a wreck and then salvage it. And you have salvagers on your ship. Equivalent of wanting to skin your kill and having a skinning knife, in another MMO. What happens there? Right click the corpse = auto loot all. Right click again = skin the corpse and loot the skin. What needs to be done in EVE? Lock on target. Tractor beam it to you, or travel slowly to it. Click Open Cargo. Click Loot all. Click Salvage. MINIMUM of 5 mouse clicks, compared to just 2. Complexity? Yes, but UNNECESSARY complexity.

It's stuff like this, basic stuff, that drives people away from the game.

Sadly true.

The switch to fantasy from sf domination happened in the mid- '80's, weirdly coinciding with the Presidency of Ronald Reagan, when people really started to not 'think too hard'. Remember ? I do.

With no real science involved.........logic not necessary. Fantasy has no restraints on it, which may be a part of the appeal. SF, also allowing free-form imagination, nonetheless has those logical restraints on it.

It's 'moar harder'.

You are competitive at 7 days.

Get into one of 9000 blue to goons alliances corporations and roll through space.

Only thing that's even slightly hard is knowing what a warp disruptor is and what to do with it.

The real reason is more that the loss is real.

Casual solo gamers that want to start from scratch every 5 minutes are better served playing solitaire