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Allow implants to be unplugged.
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Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-04-17 01:10:11 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:

Yes, they're a perk that grants you an edge. Yes, they're expensive. Yes, flying with them risks losing them. This is all fine.

What I don't understand is why you should be forced to fly with them for 24 hours at a time, when they may only be useful for a fraction of that time, and may be totally counter-productive for the remainder. Every other EVE perk I can think of is either specific to the ship / fitting you're using at the time (modules, rigs, etc) or is a short-duration consumable (drugs-- while these prevent you from "switching" drugs, they don't last long in the first place). Why can I choose when I want to use officer modules or fancy hulls, but I can't choose when I want to use implants? It makes no sense.

Why is ok for me to spend billions on a ship, then choose to leave it in my hangar for an hour while I fly around in a Rupture, but it's totally not-ok for me to do the same with implants?



its all choices, some are more permanent then others, why should everything be risk free? the choices you make in this game are supposed to be long lasting to some degree. you already have a way to avoid losing expensive implants and getting around the "these ones are not the ones i want" issue.

the real question is "Why shouldn't you have to deal with tradeoffs of your choices?"

and the answer is you should. everything has a tradeoff.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-04-17 01:11:36 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Implants are awesome. I love implants. But I don't appreciate the fact that the only way to get out of my implants is to burn a 24 hour jump clone timer. That said, I don't think reducing JC cooldown is a good idea (after all, it allows people to shortcut across the galaxy-- we don't want this turning into WoW, where you can teleport around the world at-will all the time). The alternative is to give us a way to step out of our implants.

Here's the basic problem: things that entomb characters in expensive stuff are un-fun. Say I'm me, a 73m SP character who spends a good deal of time flying fancy spaceships. I install a set of LG snakes and some hardwirings for flying my fancy spaceships. This owns because now I go real fast and shoot real good.

Now suppose that I'm bored and I see a broadcast about someone doing a rifter roam! I want to go on the rifter roam, but I don't really want to fly around in a Rifter with a billion isk worth of implants in my head (the same goes for the ridiculous clone costs for high-sp dudes, but that's another matter). Suddenly my choices are either to burn a jump clone timer (and if you're using JCs right, that means ending up on the other side of EVE, then flying all the way back to your rifter gang, assuming your other clone doesn't have fancy implants as well), to not go on the op, or to deal with the very high probability of burning a billion isk on a gimmick op.

This is dumb as hell.

Pilots should be able to unplug implants. There's just no reason not to allow this. It's not like doing so would allow people to use implants risk-free-- either you use them and get the benefits, or you take them out and lose the benefits. If would also allow people to swap implants and hardwirings around based on what they feel like flying, which is important given that lots of hardwirings have very specific applications. You can't even argue that allowing this would reduce spending on implants-- first of all, as previously mentioned, you buy implants to get benefits from them. You're always going to want to fly with them plugged in most of the time, otherwise the implants go to waste. Seondly, if people could swap implants around, they're much more likely to buy more implants. Right now, for example, I have a LG snake set, and some gun / navigation hardwirings. If I could swap implants around, I would definitely buy hardwirings for more types of gun at the very least (so I could use whichever hardwirings compliment the ship I select), and I might even buy a set of Halos or Slaves or Nomads as well.

Also, I could go on Rifter ops.

Please allow us to unplug implants. It's a pro-fun change, and it doesn't really have any downsides.



yeah it would be great.. except .. it's an isk sink.. and not being able to unplug them stops griefers from trying to force implant unplug and highway robbery of said implant.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-04-17 01:20:26 UTC
I would like to be able to unplug them, as long as i couldn't sell them, such as making them un-repackagable, like bpo's after they're used.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-04-17 01:28:03 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Or I could keep flying in my snake clone, and just play League of Legends instead of going on casual roams, which, coincidentally, IS what I do!


and this is working as intended.
Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-04-17 01:32:23 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Implants are like rigs for the body. Don't want to risk them, change your body.


Completely 100% right.

I don't want you repackaging your used implants & contaminating our marketplace with "discounted" implants that might fry our synaptic pathways or kill us with a brain infection when we plug them in. Next thing you'll know people will be collecting corpses to take them to a chop shop and bloodstained pieces of metal out of their heads to sell to the unsuspecting public.

No thank-you.
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-04-17 02:36:45 UTC
Katerwaul wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Implants are like rigs for the body. Don't want to risk them, change your body.


Completely 100% right.

I don't want you repackaging your used implants & contaminating our marketplace with "discounted" implants that might fry our synaptic pathways or kill us with a brain infection when we plug them in. Next thing you'll know people will be collecting corpses to take them to a chop shop and bloodstained pieces of metal out of their heads to sell to the unsuspecting public.

No thank-you.


I already collect bodies for when the screaming noob masses finally get enough collective weight to push that stupid idea over the edge. of course, the majority of corpses i have are pre-implant km counting. so who knows what i actually got in my meat lockers.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#27 - 2012-04-17 03:18:28 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
If you want the awesome benefits they offer, then you have to risk losing them.



How absolutely thick are you? If you undock without the implants plugged in, YOU LOSE THE AWESOME BENEFITS THEY OFFER.

I'm not saying there should be a risk-free way to use implants. I'm saying that when you DON'T want to use implants, there should be a way to continue playing the game without them and their awesome benefits that doesn't involve a 24 hour cooldown or literally throwing away billions of isk.


Do you not understand that the ONLY penalty of using implants have is you have to risk losing them until your next JC becomes available???? And you want to take this away because it inconveniences you to have expensive implants when your buddies take out a high-risk-of-getting-podded gang??? Really???

Here's a novel concept:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Maybe you should only augment yourself with implants your willing to risk for 24 hours at a time....


Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#28 - 2012-04-17 03:49:58 UTC
Implants are an ISK Sink
Who doesn't want more ISK sinks??Pirate

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-04-17 04:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Do you not understand that the ONLY penalty of using implants have is you have to risk losing them until your next JC becomes available???? And you want to take this away because it inconveniences you to have expensive implants when your buddies take out a high-risk-of-getting-podded gang??? Really???


Yes. This is precisely what I am saying. Why don't you put in some more question marks for further emphasis.

If you want to maintain the personal-isk-sink aspect of implants, make it so they can't be re-sold once plugged in? There's no need to keep them IN YOUR HEAD the whole time though.

...and don't say "but then you'll lose them on rifter ops and have to replace them!" because no, I will not go slosh-opping in my snakes.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#30 - 2012-04-17 04:52:56 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
...and don't say "but then you'll lose them on rifter ops and have to replace them!" because no, I will not go slosh-opping in my snakes.

Then that's your problem. Deal with it.

How did you Veterans start?
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-04-17 05:09:45 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
...and don't say "but then you'll lose them on rifter ops and have to replace them!" because no, I will not go slosh-opping in my snakes.

Then that's your problem. Deal with it.


Does it make you feel like a big man when you take a firm stand against fun?
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-04-17 05:10:19 UTC
YOU MAY NOT HAVE SPONTANEOUS FUN IN EVE ONLINE. IT IS YOUR PUNISHMENT FOR BUYING NICE THINGS.
Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-04-17 06:30:48 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
YOU MAY NOT HAVE SPONTANEOUS FUN IN EVE ONLINE. IT IS YOUR PUNISHMENT FOR BUYING NICE THINGS.


This is why we can't have nice things. Too much risk of spontaneous fun.
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-04-17 06:33:38 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Katerwaul wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Implants are like rigs for the body. Don't want to risk them, change your body.


Completely 100% right.

I don't want you repackaging your used implants & contaminating our marketplace with "discounted" implants that might fry our synaptic pathways or kill us with a brain infection when we plug them in. Next thing you'll know people will be collecting corpses to take them to a chop shop and bloodstained pieces of metal out of their heads to sell to the unsuspecting public.

No thank-you.


I already collect bodies for when the screaming noob masses finally get enough collective weight to push that stupid idea over the edge. of course, the majority of corpses i have are pre-implant km counting. so who knows what i actually got in my meat lockers.


Once the mewling masses send a ridiculous idea like this over the top remind me not to buy implants from you... I don't need these kinds of diseases & freezer burn in my brain.
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-04-17 06:43:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kusum Fawn
Ganthrithor wrote:
YOU MAY NOT HAVE SPONTANEOUS FUN IN EVE ONLINE. IT IS YOUR PUNISHMENT FOR BUYING NICE THINGS.


of course you can have spontaneous fun, you just cant have risk free spontaneous fun. and thats what you are asking for. risk encompasses everything. implants, clones, ships, you cant have the "wah wah i have to have the super fittings and super implants to have fun" kind of spontaneous fun, that's not spontaneous, that's very, very, planned sort of fun.

Katerwaul wrote:
Once the mewling masses send a ridiculous idea like this over the top remind me not to buy implants from you... I don't need these kinds of diseases & freezer burn in my brain.


if im am trying to sell anything to you, why would i remind you not to buy from me?

edit: oh yeah , and i can sell you a cream for that

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-04-17 06:49:21 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
YOU MAY NOT HAVE SPONTANEOUS FUN IN EVE ONLINE. IT IS YOUR PUNISHMENT FOR BUYING NICE THINGS.


of course you can have spontaneous fun, you just cant have risk free spontaneous fun. and thats what you are asking for. risk encompasses everything. implants, clones, ships, you cant have the "wah wah i have to have the super fittings and super implants to have fun" kind of spontaneous fun, that's not spontaneous, that's very, very, planned sort of fun.


Actually, what I want is spontaneous fun without super fittings and super implants. Unfortunately, I can't get out of my super implants! I'm glad we agree that this is silly!
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-04-17 07:30:37 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
YOU MAY NOT HAVE SPONTANEOUS FUN IN EVE ONLINE. IT IS YOUR PUNISHMENT FOR BUYING NICE THINGS.


of course you can have spontaneous fun, you just cant have risk free spontaneous fun. and thats what you are asking for. risk encompasses everything. implants, clones, ships, you cant have the "wah wah i have to have the super fittings and super implants to have fun" kind of spontaneous fun, that's not spontaneous, that's very, very, planned sort of fun.


Actually, what I want is spontaneous fun without super fittings and super implants. Unfortunately, I can't get out of my super implants! I'm glad we agree that this is silly!



of course you can get out of your super implants. you just don't want to in the ways that are available.

oh and yes that was a choice you made about the super shiny things. id edit your post to say what i think you really meant, but i wont, Ill just re write it,

"Actually i just want to have all the shiny things and not have to deal with any of the drawbacks that super shiny things may have. I don't want to balance boosted performance with permanence. I don't want to have to jump clone to a remote location where i have placed said jump clone. I just want to be able to have uber performance all the time risk/balance free. "

you can always go on that roam btw, part of the cost of those implants, is you gotta wear them till you jumpclone. its their balance, their drawback, like rigs.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#38 - 2012-04-17 08:47:38 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
You're right! I could!

Or I could keep flying in my snake clone, and just play League of Legends instead of going on casual roams, which, coincidentally, IS what I do!



unless goons had gone full bore neckbeard rp amarr victor armour ships only ......what roams are you all running where an fc says sorry but you and your fail snaked cyna (or other fast ship...you know...too catch that guy in the cyna trying to get awat) can't run with us?

You have pvp implants...why would you take them out. Snakes are roam implants. This would have worked better if you said pos bash. Or are these for your even faster speed tanked ratters?

Or even better, if your corp or goons are running armour roams 4 days in a row....chance day 5 will be armour too pretty damn good. By day 3 you should be going guess I'll run another clone. If this is too much effort, you might want to find a corp that actually runs shield roams. Why be in a crew that has your multi billion isk investment go to waste.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-04-17 09:02:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
YOU MAY NOT HAVE SPONTANEOUS FUN IN EVE ONLINE. IT IS YOUR PUNISHMENT FOR BUYING NICE THINGS.


of course you can have spontaneous fun, you just cant have risk free spontaneous fun. and thats what you are asking for. risk encompasses everything. implants, clones, ships, you cant have the "wah wah i have to have the super fittings and super implants to have fun" kind of spontaneous fun, that's not spontaneous, that's very, very, planned sort of fun.


Actually, what I want is spontaneous fun without super fittings and super implants. Unfortunately, I can't get out of my super implants! I'm glad we agree that this is silly!



of course you can get out of your super implants. you just don't want to in the ways that are available.

oh and yes that was a choice you made about the super shiny things. id edit your post to say what i think you really meant, but i wont, Ill just re write it,

"Actually i just want to have all the shiny things and not have to deal with any of the drawbacks that super shiny things may have. I don't want to balance boosted performance with permanence. I don't want to have to jump clone to a remote location where i have placed said jump clone. I just want to be able to have uber performance all the time risk/balance free. "


How many times are you going to make my point for me? You seem to be confused about the way implants work-- in the game that I play, implants only provide benefits while plugged in. You keep claiming that I want the benefits of using implants without having to actually use the implants. This is absolutely not the case. What I'd like to be able to do is choose when I do and do not want to use the implants. Sometimes you don't want or need to use any implants. Sometimes you'd prefer to use another set of implants rather than the set you have in (such as switching from Slaves to Snakes, or Snakes to Halos, or Virtues, or Centurions, or whatever). In both cases, the game refuses to let you.

Again, the only other "permanent" enhancement I can think of in EVE is rigs, and they're specific to the hull to which they are fit. If I want two Vagabonds: a blinged out, faction-fit, T2-rigged one for solo PvP, and a bog-standard T2 fit / T1 rigged one for casual roaming, the game doesn't force me to pick one of those ships and fly it for 24 hours. I'm free to come back to a station and swap between them, allowing me to change the risk-reward balance when I choose. With jump clones, you're committed to a particular configuration for a 24 hour period. This means that if I want to jump into an implant clone from a basic clone, I'm stuck in that for 24 hours. If I go from an implant clone to a basic clone, I'm stuck in that for 24 hours. Either of these scenarios can be seriously disruptive to my gameplay.

Your arguments have nothing to do with "risk vs reward." Any time you want to fly with the benefits of implants, you must have them installed, and thus must risk them in combat. The issue has nothing to do with risk vs reward and everything to do with ****** gameplay mechanics that entomb you in a particular configuration for no particular reason (in this case, it *is* for a particular reason-- to prevent rapid travel around EVE using JCs-- but one that's completely unrelated to risk vs reward concerning implant use).


Misanthra wrote:

unless goons had gone full bore neckbeard rp amarr victor armour ships only ......what roams are you all running where an fc says sorry but you and your fail snaked cyna (or other fast ship...you know...too catch that guy in the cyna trying to get awat) can't run with us?

You have pvp implants...why would you take them out. Snakes are roam implants. This would have worked better if you said pos bash. Or are these for your even faster speed tanked ratters?

Or even better, if your corp or goons are running armour roams 4 days in a row....chance day 5 will be armour too pretty damn good. By day 3 you should be going guess I'll run another clone. If this is too much effort, you might want to find a corp that actually runs shield roams. Why be in a crew that has your multi billion isk investment go to waste.


Yes, the problem is indeed specific to snake implants and their incompatibility with armor-tanked ships, combined with my alliances refusal to run shield gangs. This is exactly what I'm getting at.

**** off.
Whitehound
#40 - 2012-04-17 10:28:10 UTC
You do not want to risk losing them, I get that, but risk is what makes this game fun.

People will then not just unplug expensive implants when going on a Rifter roam, but they will plug some other ones in, too. And not just for Rifter roams but for every occasion.

You may not like the current mechanic of implants, but I do, and I think you should just not plug in expensive ones when you know you like Rifter roams and could possibly lose them.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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