EVE General Discussion

Hmm... sounds like a real efficiency equation. I don't know what will happen quite frankly. I guess the only thing I can do is wait for the mechanic to come to TQ and see if the targets I have in mind right now are still viable. My pockets are deep enough that I'm not too-too worried about cost... at least initially. I'm going to have to play with it before I can meaningfully comment further about specifics. I see an average war lasting between 3-8 weeks. Will see what that costs...

That's not war, that's stealing purses from old ladies and lollipops from babies. This moral argument of weeding out the weak is a just an attempt to justify greifing carebears.

If one wants to help "weakling" newbies, go recruit some instead of trying to justify teaching them a lesson with the big epeen gun.

War in Eve should be fun, not dreaded. Creating clear goals for both sides will help in this regard.

Wardecs in the current system are crap and corps join dec shield anyway, so no reason to talk about it.

Future system will also be crap because it fails to address multiple important game design points:

1) Does not address the fact that people will do the impossible to avoid it (they'll join huge fake alliances and whatever).

This is an EvE failure. I play other PvP MMOs and in there people WANT to fight, in EvE they don't. Therefore there are elements in the gameplay that discourage new and old people both to leave high sec AND to fight back anyway.

I have my own ideas about which those elements are but I can't be arsed listing them.

2) Does not address AT ALL the simple fact that even a "legit non griefing wardec" is still stupid.

If a competitor wardecs me to disrupt my business, I am GLAD to hire mercs to fight back but...

... it's useless!

Why? Because in ANY WAY, whatever the amount I pay, whoever I hire, the attackers WILL disrupt my business. So it's just pointless to pay the mercs as the mercs can't let my business not be disrupted.

If I have an industrial corp, the attackers WILL be able to fly disco battleships with neutral alts and then they WILL be able to warp to the mining ships and pop them all. So why should I pay mercs again?

If I have a POS, I know no famous / trusted mercs accepting hi sec POS defense contracts (they tell it's way too boring). So I'd have to hire poor sods accepting the menial task, with high chance they get run over and then I lose the POS anyway.

If I have heavy logistics, I'd have to pay zillions to a big merc corp to escort soft targets 23/7, else I have to stop the logistics and be disrupted.

So, what do I hire the mercs for? To make their wallet happy? Because I have to see anybody being able to prove me that the ONLY reason to hire mercs (to avoid disruption) will succeed.

Defense in this game is retardedly weak and is designed in every feature (from loltank Mackinaws to general mechanics).
This is one of the reasons of point 1 why EvE wardecs fail. The targets already know they were picked because the attackers were SURE they could not retaliate.

After all, everybody know that PvP attacks are often decided before the first shot happens and that people attack only when they are sure to win with all the chances stacked in their favor.

Wardecs are no different, as long it's so easy to have all the chances stacked in aggressor's favor EvE wardecs will always fail as mechanic.

Jesus. Everyone thinks they have the right to a corp.

The merc corp wouldn't be hired to keep you safe. You need to keep yourself safe in a wartime situation, so maybe you need some of your people to escort your weak members around. The merc corp would be hired to give your enemy a black eye.... patrolling for them, camping them in stations... believe me, some merc corp fakers might not do much of anything... but if VETO or the like was working for you, you better believe it's going to have an effect on your enemy. They won't be able to freely move anywhere, and attempts at their movement through highsec are going to look more like trying to fly through hostile null. Mercs can be effective... (I get a shiver down my spine just thinking about VETO). After a few weeks of that I bet would-be attackers think twice. Pulling up your dec record and finding that you've never lost a war would certainly discourage me (unless I thought you were gaming the system / your record a bit w/ alt wars). However, if you are the kind of player that rides a blazing sparkle pony and needs a hand held when you go after high sec belt rats, you don't rate a corp, and should join one that someone else runs or learn to enjoy an NPC corp. I think the idea and value of forming and maintaining a corp in eve has been discounted by highsec invulnerability for years. If you have a corp, there are benefits. There should also be risks.

I know most people just play on their alts if they are in a war they don't want to deal with.

It's not rocket surgery.

point and point



I forsee the argument
"its a mmo"

what other MMO is as solo friendly as this one? They all REQUIRE you to group for quests and stuff that Ive seen. Ive never seen another MMO where you can go from the beginning of the questing system to near the end (lvl 1-4 missions) ENTIRELY SOLO IF YOU WANT

Its definately looking more ganker based.
CCP MAKE UP YOUR MIND

they put the decshield in place to STOP griefer corps (and protect EVEUNI) yes? Why then remove it (and remove it in a way that still benefits EVEUNI given theyre big enough to deter most wars by sheer size)?

Itll be funny when the new system gets put in and ppl can shut down EVEUNI (cause they say dont undock during war) semi perminantly

No it is a privilege in that you need to be able to stand on your own. You are unable and unwilling to stand on your own. You want it to be easy and safe so you can play the game your way on your terms and that's the end of it. You need a static content game. The point of an MMO is you play with other people. You are competing for finite resources in finite space and through the conflicts that inevitably arise we get the saga of eve. Having a corp means you get corp offices where you can afford them, you can set your own tax rate to benefit the CEO or the corp as a whole (or in my case set that b***** to zero), and yes build infrastructure and an industrial base if that is your desire. In return for these privileges you need to defend your smack! That means you cant all be pu****s... but it sounds like you are a corp of them so too bad, somebody bigger and better than you might take what you have. You can't have eve if that's not the case.


In RL if you hire mercs you are doing so to kill the hell out of your enemies. Armies and "public" security usually handles garrison security jobs (in other words entities hiring mercs are capable of defending themselves, they use mercs for more dangerous jobs like attacking). Again, in an RL analogy you are too weak to hold a country, and you are in no position to hire mercs, because you don't even have the fundamentals of an organiztion that can stand on it's own.


Again, this isn't minecraft. If someone wants something you have you can't just stomp your foot and pout like a little kid. Well... I suppose you could but a lot of good it will do you. You need to be able to defend yourself. If you can't do that, you are too weak to exist. Join and NPC corp for safety or join a real corp and let them defend you (for a small tax of course).


The agressing corp can be deced just like your corp can. They are just at much at risk... just because they don't feed your feeble corp members easy kills and ships doesn't mean they are taking any less of a risk. Sure, if YOU get deced it will seem as you describe it, because you've done nothing with the weapons you build. you don't know how to use them. The truth is there is no "jumping away" if you are against a decent opponent (unless you are all in cloaky nullified tengus or something). You can always catch a few of them. Kill them. Rinse and repeat ftw.

Edit: Off topic parts removed, CCP Phantom

The criticism of the article is very fair, but I think some variant of the war structure idea would have some merit.

The bottom line is that offense tends to be easier than defense. If a force as stacked as Concord can't stop suicide ganks (by design), is it really that realistic to expect mercs to be able to protect pilots trying to mine or mission for ISK during a war?

I don't think it's unreasonable for an attacker to want to disrupt a target's income generation, but I would like for the targets to have the ability to turn the table. As things stand, an attacker, can force expense (a defensive response) by just sitting in station. I think giving the targets a way to respond would improve the situation.

A destroyable structure that ends the war would be a good way to give a target corp a lever against a declaring corporation. It forces not one but both parties into defending something.

The devil's in the details, though. There would have to be multiple war structures of various sizes available, however, to accommodate corps of various sizes. It would need to be sturdy enough not to be felled by time zone attack games, yet not kept alive strictly by such time zone repair games, either.

The way to do it is probably to make the war structure strictly ablative and to require that the declaring corp have it up at the start of the war. The war ends either when the attacker calls it off or when the war structure is brought down. Bringing down the war structure within a week should give the target corp a temporary immunity to wars from any corp that includes members from the original attacking corp.

They could mix in other extensions, as well. It might be that corps joining wars on a target's behalf also have to have a war structure, and are kicked out when they lose their war structures. Likewise, war structures might be required of a corp that wants to make a war mutual.

Last, this might be a way toward a two-tier corp system. Corps without a war structure could be required to register as vassals of NPC corps, pay taxes, and be unable to put up POS'es or join alliances.

Even though they already do, frequently.

Just sayin.

After reading more of this thread i've become convinced all the griefers need is better propaganda to convince the public that the killing of the innocent and defenseless is justified.

Maybe start making baseless claims that small hisec industry corps are connected to corps that are actual threats?