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Question about Micro Jump Drives
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1 - 2012-04-16 16:01:33 UTC
Could someone shed some light on the proposed mechanics for Micro Jump Drives?

My understanding is that it will allow "micro" jumps of 100km, although I could be very wrong on that.

Specifically I am concerned about their effect on long range (sniper) combat, which is already nearly impossible in game due to current probing mechanics. Will it make it even easier to jump on top of a sniper fleet?

I am fully in favor of new dimensions being added to combat, however the option to have a viable long range fleet needs to remain... so I'm a bit concerned.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-04-16 16:03:25 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Could someone shed some light on the proposed mechanics for Micro Jump Drives?

My understanding is that it will allow "micro" jumps of 100km, although I could be very wrong on that.

Specifically I am concerned about their effect on long range (sniper) combat, which is already nearly impossible in game due to current probing mechanics. Will it make it even easier to jump on top of a sniper fleet?

I am fully in favor of new dimensions being added to combat, however the option to have a viable long range fleet needs to remain... so I'm a bit concerned.


It also means that long-range sniper fleets can jump 100km away from the jump point the second they see them aligning.

Dodixie > Hek
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-04-16 16:04:42 UTC
Considering they already are nerfing hellcats I would not expect them to help snipers.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#4 - 2012-04-16 16:05:31 UTC
Oh great.. blinky-blinky combats in our future. You'll have people teleporting all over the warzone chasing one another.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#5 - 2012-04-16 16:08:42 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Could someone shed some light on the proposed mechanics for Micro Jump Drives?

My understanding is that it will allow "micro" jumps of 100km, although I could be very wrong on that.

Specifically I am concerned about their effect on long range (sniper) combat, which is already nearly impossible in game due to current probing mechanics. Will it make it even easier to jump on top of a sniper fleet?

I am fully in favor of new dimensions being added to combat, however the option to have a viable long range fleet needs to remain... so I'm a bit concerned.


It also means that long-range sniper fleets can jump 100km away from the jump point the second they see them aligning.


That was the first thing that came to mind for me as well, however wouldn't that just become a game of constant jumping? The long range fleet would barely have time to target and get off a single volley (maybe not even that) before they would be forced to jump again... unless there is a spool up or cool down time as well.

Otherwise that still seems to put combat completely in favor of the short range fleet trying to pin them down, and doesn't seem very balanced or viable.

Still, I know what you are saying... and there may simply be no details available yet to clarify the situation.

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#6 - 2012-04-16 16:10:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Mars Theran wrote:
Oh great.. blinky-blinky combats in our future. You'll have people teleporting all over the warzone chasing one another.


Heh, yes. I had visions of a "Bleach" style of combat evolving.... with Star Ships using "Flash Step" constantly to get into position behind their opponent. Smile

Edit: Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of starship combat working like that in EVE. I'm hoping there is more to it than that.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-04-16 16:18:51 UTC
there will be a cool down period on the micro jump drive of course

everything thing in eve has a draw back

:)
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-04-16 16:19:08 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


Heh, yes. I had visions of a "Bleach" style of combat evolving.... with Star Ships using "Flash Step" constantly to get into position behind their opponent. Smile

Edit: Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of starship combat working like that in EVE. I'm hoping there is more to it than that.


This is a better method of combat than the "BLOBBED, MO'FO" that we have now. Positioning should be implemented further - turning guns around to shoot behind should require an entire align of the ship, which should take much longer when in combat.

Dodixie > Hek
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#9 - 2012-04-16 16:25:35 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


Heh, yes. I had visions of a "Bleach" style of combat evolving.... with Star Ships using "Flash Step" constantly to get into position behind their opponent. Smile

Edit: Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of starship combat working like that in EVE. I'm hoping there is more to it than that.


This is a better method of combat than the "BLOBBED, MO'FO" that we have now. Positioning should be implemented further - turning guns around to shoot behind should require an entire align of the ship, which should take much longer when in combat.

what you realy mean: implement a proper tracking formula. The current tracking formula does not take ship orientation into account which is the root of the problem. For example: a ship orbiting a static object has still to track as much as the static object would have to... which is wrong. Thats why close range ships need such an insane tracking bonus.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#10 - 2012-04-16 16:30:48 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


Heh, yes. I had visions of a "Bleach" style of combat evolving.... with Star Ships using "Flash Step" constantly to get into position behind their opponent. Smile

Edit: Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of starship combat working like that in EVE. I'm hoping there is more to it than that.


This is a better method of combat than the "BLOBBED, MO'FO" that we have now. Positioning should be implemented further - turning guns around to shoot behind should require an entire align of the ship, which should take much longer when in combat.

what you realy mean: implement a proper tracking formula. The current tracking formula does not take ship orientation into account which is the root of the problem. For example: a ship orbiting a static object has still to track as much as the static object would have to... which is wrong. Thats why close range ships need such an insane tracking bonus.


Something I've always found odd too. It's a given that a ship being orbited at close range would have difficulty keeping up with its attacker, but that is not the same for the attacker as its position and orientation relative to the target remains the same for the most part. One of the flaws in EVE physics.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#11 - 2012-04-16 17:06:23 UTC
exactly

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#12 - 2012-04-16 17:11:41 UTC
There are deployable bubbles that prevents mjds.

And you're right to belvie they're going to favor short ranged ships since naval variants of the modules include gallente and minmatar.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#13 - 2012-04-16 17:15:30 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Considering they already are nerfing hellcats I would not expect them to help snipers.
How are they doing that, exactly? I keep hearing it, but I never see anyone demonstrating it.
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-04-16 17:16:12 UTC
Stealth Gallente buff... Eve is real, will be real.

Tactical destroyers... I'll take a dozen Gallente, please.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#15 - 2012-04-16 17:18:44 UTC
If I am not mistaken, wasn't it said that MJD would have a "cooldown" period, and that the module wouldn't even be able to be used in the event of a targeting lock? I could be thinking of something else that was brought up during FF, but I am pretty sure they said those things about the MJD's. Big smile

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Abraxas666
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-04-16 17:26:26 UTC
When I was first told about the module by a friend familiar with null-sec combat he said that he thinks CCP is trying to make battleship fleets more viable as a result of the popularity of long-ranged nano drake/cane fleets. I don't have a lot of large fleet engagement experience but this seems like a plausible outcome.

But yes the module will of course have some mechanic limiting it's frequent use, you're not going to be able to spam it. I think it's supposed to have a wind-up rather than a cool-down (you jump at the end of the module's cycle, not at the beginning), with a draw-back happening while it's winding up but I could be completely wrong.
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-04-16 17:28:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Considering they already are nerfing hellcats I would not expect them to help snipers.
How are they doing that, exactly? I keep hearing it, but I never see anyone demonstrating it.



You keep hearing it from masternerdguy.


Mineral prices doubled, therefore nobody will fly hellcats.



Somebody forgot to give us null guys the memo however because we're still flyin' em.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#18 - 2012-04-16 17:37:16 UTC
I'd like those new jump drives better if it wasn't an arbitrary 100km you jump. Just make it spool up and the longer you let it run, the farther it will warp you with a minimum and a maximum between say, 50 and 150km. It would take a lot more skill to use then 'everyone blinks 100km'.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Joe Skellington
Sarz'na Khumatari
#19 - 2012-04-16 17:49:39 UTC
Micro Jumpdrives? Please tell me this is a troll or a joke :(

Please note that ASCII art is not permitted in the forum signatures. Spitfire
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#20 - 2012-04-16 17:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Keep in mind that there is also a mobile micro jump drive disruptor as well listed in the same build file as the micro jump drive.

Joe Skellington wrote:
Micro Jumpdrives? Please tell me this is a troll or a joke :(


Not a joke.


[+] Micro Jump Drive I
[+|n] medPower
[+|n] microJumpDrive
[+|n] online
[+] capacitorNeed: 946.0
[+] capacity: 0
[+] cpu: 77.0
[+] disallowRepeatingActivation: 1.0
[+] duration: 30000.0
[+] gallenteNavyBonusMultiplier: 0
[+] heatAbsorbtionRateModifier: 0.04
[+] heatDamage: 8.2
[+] hp: 40.0
[+] mass: 0
[+] maxGroupActive: 1.0
[+] metaLevel: 0
[+] moduleReactivationDelay: 120000.0
[+] power: 1375.0
[+] republicFleetBonusMultiplier: 0
[+] requiredSkill1: 4385.0
[+] requiredSkill1Level: 1.0
[+] requiredThermoDynamicsSkill: 1.0
[+] signatureRadiusBonusPercent: 500.0
[+] techLevel: 1.0
[+] volume: 10.0
[+] warpScrambleStrength: -1.0

Long ramp up time, at end ship is jumped instantly 100 km directly forward. Ship maintains direction and velocity. Ship is affected by warp scramblers and warp disruption fields.

Note: Battleship class module


[+] Micro Jump Drive I Blueprint
[+] capacity: 0
[+] mass: 0
[+] volume: 0.01

[+] Mobile Large Jump Disruptor I Blueprint
[+] capacity: 0
[+] mass: 0
[+] volume: 0.01

[+] Micro Jump Drive Operation
[+|n] propulsionJammingSkillBoostDurationBonus
[+|n] skillEffect
[+|n] skillMJDdurationBonus
[+] capacity: 0
[+] durationBonus: 5.0
[+] mass: 0
[+] primaryAttribute: 165.0
[+] requiredSkill1: 3449.0
[+] requiredSkill1Level: 4.0
[+] requiredSkill2: 3455.0
[+] requiredSkill2Level: 2.0
[+] secondaryAttribute: 167.0
[+] skillLevel: 0
[+] skillTimeConstant: 5.0
[+] volume: 0


[+] Mobile Large Jump Disruptor I
[+|n] anchorDrop
[+|n] anchorLift
[+] anchoringDelay: 360000.0
[+] armorHP: 60000.0
[+] capacity: 0
[+] hp: 120000.0
[+] mass: 0
[+] metaLevel: 0
[+] requiredSkill1: 11584.0
[+] requiredSkill1Level: 3.0
[+] requiredSkill2: 3435.0
[+] requiredSkill2Level: 4.0
[+] requiredSkill3: 4385.0
[+] requiredSkill3Level: 3.0
[+] scanLadarStrength: 25.0
[+] shieldCapacity: 40000.0
[+] shieldRechargeRate: 1200000.0
[+] signatureRadius: 450.0
[+] techLevel: 1.0
[+] volume: 585.0

A Large deployable self powered unit that prevents micro jumping into its area of effect.
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