Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Grande Bretagne gives nil point

They already made concessions for helping new players train early on with the accelerated skill training for the first XX (do not know the number off hand) SP.

I did not benefit from that change as it happened well after I started. The entire point was to give new players a little boost early on, and although it was after my time, I did think it was a good change.

Probably because EVE, despite being real, is not real life and as it is only a video game we can bend the rules a little bit.

I don't agree with the concept of Skill Point re-allocation, because I believe EVE should punish players who do not think their way through the game.

But at the same time, comparing a video-game to real life is a failure on too many levels to ignore, Sasha.

Because it turns characters into a selection of (more or less… probably less, in the case of those making the suggestion) carefully selected skills into just being a pile of SP. It creates an xp/level system in a game that is blissfully devoid of any such mechanics.

The thing is also that the “problems“ it is meant to solve don't exist. You can already completely change career or playstyle — just train it. Again, this is not one of those level-based games where you pick a class and you're restricted to a particular skill tree that determines what you can do. You can pick anything you like at any time. At no point are you locked into any particular play style.

One-time or not, I'll just use my standard copypasta for this idea:

It removes the point of having skills to begin with.
It removes the point of having attributes.
It removes attribute implants from the game.
It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups.
It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character.
It removes planning and choice and consequences.
It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas.
It kills character trading.
It massively boosts older characters over new ones.
It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.

I'd much rather see some kind of SP biomass mechanic, like others have mentioned, were you can biomass SP, and get say, 50% of the biomasssed SP back as unallocated SP.

Such a system would allow the people with OCD to get their "clean" skill sheets, and people who made blunders to spec out of it.

You can call it another SP sink

We don't have enough SP sinks in the game, and this one takes care of a lot of other things people have been asking for over the years.

If I'm willing to take my 30M SP main, and re-skill him. Shouldn't I be allowed to do so if I accept him being a 15M SP main after doing it?

Fun fact: people don't have to make new accounts if they want to go indy or whatever already.

Still if the golfers game was never ending and done in space this would relevant but alas

I support a redo do for say after the first 10 million sp ?

It allow the newbies to undo the big mistakes they made and won break any sizable chunk of the game

What, so everyone can swap all their skill points to Drake piloting once they get to 10m sp?

No thanks. Any and all skill point remapping promotes the FOTM and discourages variety in ships flown.

Every skill is usefull, a wasted skill now is a present to your future self.

Like I said, those are the two that don't quite apply if it's a one-time thing, but still… It removes the point of having skills since with SP remaps, you can do anything you want at any time. Want to do something new? Just remap. Oh, you need something else now? Remap.

The same goes for attributes. If you can remap your SP, the attributes become pointless because you always train at max speed and then just remap those SP into whatever skills you actually wanted to begin with. Neural remaps do the exact opposite: they ensure that you train some skills at max speed and others at minimum speed, and you can not turn one into the other at will. Since attributes no longer matter, attribute implants no longer matter. Neural remaps do not let you skip the whole point of having attributes — they reinforce that mechanic and makes your choice and planning even more important.

Even with one remap, there will still be the tendency to go with the standard build everyone else uses because it has proven to be “the best”. This is a fundamental issue with turning characters into piles of SP, which is what any SP remap mechanic does.

The whole point of it is to remove the need for planning and choice — that's why people want it: because they are not happy with the choices they made because they planned poorly. This removal of planning means there is no longer any real reason to think through your goals and your progression that this planning leads towards. It completely removes progression and achievement since you just get to where you now want to go instantly.

It kills character trading because there is no longer any need to get that ability you didn't train for — just remap to it.

You're assuming things that aren't in the proposal, and even with a loss, it still leaves older characters able to suddenly adapt to new realities better than new ones can. With the current skill system, a new environment means everyone has to adapt to it at the same rate.

The current skill system also means that “catching up” is not an applicable concept. It is impossible not to catch up in EVE at the moment, since all you can ever train is lvl V in a skill, and since each piece of equipment has a very limited amount of SP that is relevant to it. If you suddenly turn characters into piles of SP, rather than collections of skills, then we get to a situation where more SP = better, whereas the situation right now is that more SP = more expensive clone and that's all. Turning characters into piles of SP gives SP a value that it currently doesn't have, because what matters right now is what combination of skills you've trained, not how many SP you have.


And that last part is the real problem with this idea: it solves an issue that doesn't exist. There is simply no need to remap SP in a game where you can already get all the skills you want.