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[Proposal] Allow Rigs on T3's to be attached to a certain subsystem (allows you to swap rigs out
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progodlegend
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2011-09-28 00:14:19 UTC
Alright so I'll just make this short and simple. T3's lose a lot of their versatility by having rigs the same way other ships have rigs. Being able to swap subsystems is cool and all, but generally you have to design a very few amount of setups around the same 3 rigs if you want to switch out any subsystems. This means that versatility is really not the case, and most people own 1 t3 that does 1 role or a few roles.

What I am proposing, is for you to be able to attach the rigs to a certain subsystem, this way, when you take that subsystem off, the rigs stay attached to that subsystem, and you can add a new subsystem and then have different rigs on the T3.

This would allow you to do things like own a loki and swap between shield and armor tanked setups, without having to destroy the shield rigs on it every time or vice versa. (personally I use an armor legion in armor fleets, but occasionally like to do cloaky probing with an interdiction nullifier on it, but the trimarks stay on there, which really don't do anything, its dumb. It would be much more practical if I could swap in agility rigs without having to destroy the trimarks.)

T3's are already pretty well balanced with the loss of skill points if you lose a t3, so this won't really unbalance them, just make it easy for people to create more specialized setups with the same t3, and save a little isk.

Tell me what you think, I think its a pretty simple idea, not sure about implementing it on a programming level, but it would give t3 users a new set of possibilities without adding any unbalances with actually flying in space.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-09-28 00:17:45 UTC
As much as I'd like this feature...im gonna have to say no.

Tech 3 ships are scary ships in their own right..hard to kill...they do battleship grade damage...and givnig them "more" power would make them overpowered to be honest.

They are expensive to be honest...and cruiser riggs while not cheap...aren't wallet killers...unless your a Tech 2 rig shopper..in which case...stop whning.

So sorry..not supporting.

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progodlegend
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2011-09-28 00:23:08 UTC
t3 ships are scary on purpose, they are by far the most powerful ships in the game (DPS is actually where they are not overpowered, they are close to most bc's/hac's in that regard). But still, even the alliance's that have used t3 heavy fleets(PL, others), don't use them that often, and are very cautious with them. The skillpoint loss balances t3's, if they were just a regular ship that cost 600 mil, the alliances that could afford to field them every day would do it no matter what.

But you can't afford to have your pilots lose a t3 everyday, because before long they will be doing it with level 2 or 3 skills, and that defeats the purpose.

This doesn't really change anything, it just allows people to own 1 Loki for shield roaming and big armor fleets, and not have to rip off rigs every time to make the switch.

It's simple, and its practical considering that t3's are supposed to be versatile.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#4 - 2011-09-28 01:11:56 UTC
I want to think this through. Rigs are modifications to the ship that generally detract from one attribute to improve another. Give up speed for more armor, or vice versa. Improve your guns' damage or fire rate at the cost of power grid. It's a trade-off.

Now let's look at subsystems: they apply bonuses to your ship and designate its attributes. One carries CPU and electronics bonuses, another carries power grid and capacitor, and so on. There are no penalties for subsystems as each one contains critical components of the ship, you're just choosing between different specifications depending on your need.

Now, if you move the rig slots to a subsystem, which one do you move it to? Why would you make a modification to your engineering subsystem in order to get more armor? Why would you put a launcher modification on a defensive subsystem? Rigging subsystems defies logic; the modifications are made to the HULL of the ship, not to the subsystems.

On top of that, you're talking about giving a single class of ship the ability to easily refit without the loss of rigs. This doesn't seem like much until you get into T2 rigs, at which point you might be saving the price of a subsystem every time you refit without losing them. It's a huge balance problem in my opinion. Besides that, it flies in the face of the notion of it being a MODIFICATION.

In other words, no.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#5 - 2011-09-28 06:25:24 UTC
Dear lord no.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Aineko Macx
#6 - 2011-09-28 09:51:05 UTC
God no.
T3's are much too flexible and powerful as it is and overshadow multiple classes of other ships.

iveeCore 3.0: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
Ingvar Engst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#7 - 2011-09-28 11:50:53 UTC
As good as this sounds on the surface, from a solo-pilot perspective... when you see an invading fleet into a wormhole comprised of some 50 to 80 tengus (in addition to the other stuff) you reconsider whether or not they need a buff. I like it. I really do. Sadly, have to say no.

What a weekend that was though...
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-09-28 14:15:58 UTC
I'd support allowing swapping out rigs in the following manner:


  1. Rigs go into their own subsystem (So you have to buy, for example, the Loki Modification Subsystem and install it into the ship).
  2. Each subsystem has 350 calibration and 2 rig slots (not 3 like T3s get today - this is, imo, one of the reasons they are over powered)..
  3. Rigs cannot be unmounted once installed into a modification subsystem without being destroyed (just like today)
  4. You can swap the entire subsystem (just like with the other subsystems) thereby replacing one set of rigs with another. As in other cases where rigs are involved, if you remove the rigs from the subsystem, or repackage the subsystem., they are destroyed.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#9 - 2011-09-28 20:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Karim alRashid
The idea is sound.

Fears of overpowering T3 ships are unsubstantiated.

Each subsystem will have three rig slots, but at any given time a T3 ship would be allowed to have at most three rigs total.

There won't be a ship that cannot exist right now, ever.


Armor and Shield rigs go to the Defensive Subsystem.
Astronautic rigs got to the Propulsion Subsystem
Drone, Missile, Hybrid weapon, Projectile weapon and Energy weapon rigs go to the Offensive Subsystem
Energy grid rigs go to the Engineering Subsystem
Electronic and Electronic Superiority rigs go to the Electronics subsystem.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos