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The Carebear Stigma: A Question

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Author
Zey Nadar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2011-09-27 10:49:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Zey Nadar
Doing PvE as such is not the problem. Hardcore pvpers just get angry when some people refuse to fight for what they have. In nullsec for example, calling for a defense fleet and having your corpies not join it is a source of angst. This creates an illusion that some people 'are only carebears' and wont fight. Even though they might be afk doing whatever..

ps. If you are looking for fights, then you basically would never have time for pve..
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2011-09-27 11:01:58 UTC
EVE is a PVP game. PVE is conducted to fuel PVP and the subsequent destruction of ships. PVE in EVE is bad because EVE is bad.

Former member of CSM6.

Barbelo Valentinian
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#43 - 2011-09-27 11:02:36 UTC
Pay it no mind - apart from when (as someone said above) it's used to express annoyance at corpmates who in times of crisis do PvE instead of joining in with defence, it's just a sort of running joke in EVE.

In terms of FUNCTION, for every "pirate" there's a "carebear" alt, who is liable to get ganked as much as the next guy if he's not in a PvP-fit ship.

In terms of PREFERENCE, there are obviously many people playing EVE who try to avoid PvP combat as much as possible, and I suppose you could legitimately call them "carebears proper", but: a) EVE is an open world PvP game, so it's never possible to avoid PvP combat entirely; b) avoiding PvP combat is itself a form of PvP (obviously so, since CCP have given people the tools to avoid PvP combat, to a certain extent, if they so wish); and c) there's an in-game economy, so such players just as necessary to the game as the PvP-ers.

IOW, it's only n00bs who take the Carebear vs. PK theatre seriously. Everyone else snickers up their sleeve at them.
J Kunjeh
#44 - 2011-09-27 11:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: J Kunjeh
We can't all be highly paid star athletes (super-duper leet PVP'ers), someone has to pick up the trash and clean out the sewers (so-called carebears). That is, unless you're a large null-sec alliance...then you just have robots do all the dirty work.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 

Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#45 - 2011-09-27 11:45:20 UTC
Kaede Kimura wrote:
It just comes from a simple fact that people feel that anyone can PvE (melt rocks, grind missions), but PvP is where one can really prove their skill. It also depends on how you define carebear, would station traders be included? Playing on the market can be considered as a form of pvp in EVE.


Just blob them.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Seraph Cruoris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2011-09-27 13:31:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Cruoris
so interesting to see the various replies and the personalities each of you bring to the table...

side qn: is exploration a worthwhile profession in EVE these days?
AFKCloaked AltSpy
Doomheim
#47 - 2011-09-27 14:11:36 UTC
All players in Eve are carebears OP. They either Pve, or do some form of pve for their PvP "main", or they buy their money. Or blob. or live in a WH.

Its just a way of saying "you don't do what I do so you're not as good as me". Which roughly translates to "I have Daddy issues".
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#48 - 2011-09-27 14:20:01 UTC
The stigma is in your mind, and the minds of all the internet spaceship pilots who think everyone should play the game just like they do.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#49 - 2011-09-27 18:53:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Karim alRashid
Seraph Cruoris wrote:

what is with the carebear stigma? i could be wrong but from my understanding the majority of the EVE economy is player driven, wouldn't you technically need these 'carebears' to keep the economy afloat.


You may need them, but why would you respect them?

What virtues do they posses, that are appreciable and rare and make them stand out of the crowd ?

PS. The same applies to all the f1-f8 monkeys, of course.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos

Seraph Cruoris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2011-09-28 02:08:20 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:


You may need them, but why would you respect them?

What virtues do they posses, that are appreciable and rare and make them stand out of the crowd ?

PS. The same applies to all the f1-f8 monkeys, of course.


That depends what you define as carebear and what you define as pvp; one example id say anyone that plays the market def has qualities that can be appreciated while they may not be able to be compared directly to 'pvp proper' its still admirable qualities. esp if they do it at a large scale which requires real organizational and logistical skills.

I guess thats the amazing thing about EVE you actually CAN play it anyway you want and there's actual depth to all facets of EVE. they might not be as fleshed out as others but they're not shallow add ons either.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#51 - 2011-09-28 05:51:36 UTC
Carebear is a term used often by those who think that their way of playing is the only way, and seek to denigrate other ways to play.

Usually these are the griefers and killmail addicts.

Carebear is a very loosely defined term anyway. It can be said that someone who never leaves high-sec is a carebear, but how about someone in 0.0 who sweats at the idea of removing local because they won't know when to dock up?

Yes, there are such things as "nullbears" and "wormbears" too.

There are even gankbears. These are the uber l33t PVPers who will never engage someone unless it's their gate camp or blob versus one or maybe two. Heck I had 4 guys in frigates and cruisers run from my exploration fit Cyclone and it was their own stinking bubble I got stuck in! (probably came back with battleships not knowing that my Cyclone in overheat will run over 1200 KM/Sec but oh well).

The term Carebear and the other versions of it are as loosely used as the term "pirate". There are people killing everything that moves calling themselves pirates. And without their carebear indie alts earning the ISK, they would never be as rich as real pirates. Some people who trick a noob into joining their corp, and then kicking them after moving their stuff, popping their ship, and scramming their pod while laughing at the noob. They too call themselves pirates but there are more descriptive definitions for that sort who will deny being griefers even after they day they make some 11 year old hang himself in the closet (upon realizing the world has such people in it).


We can attach "bear" to just about anything that is taken a bit far or repeated to some extent while at the same time, avoiding as much risk as possible - you know, like the real world. For example, I could be called an "explorationbear" because while I do go into wormholes and 0.0 for exploration, I take precautions to avoid PVP. I have a ship in use from 2009 to show my bearness.

Does this make me a coward or someone who avoids bad tactical decisions? I ask that because I have seen threads started people people who state "so I wanted to get into PVP" and then they go on to detail how they purchased and outfitted their best ship they could buy with the lvl 4 Mission money, complete with all T2 and....

got ganked horribly the moment they hit a lowsec pipeline.

Now, there is PVP, and there is cowardice (bearness?) but is feeding ships to the sharks at will a good idea? I avoid PVP because I know that nothing survives a gate camp or bubble camp and the Russians don''t like it when you make their bots safe up in drone space.

I've dueled with many in other threads raging "carebear this and carebear that" while trying to explain to them that even if people geared up and marched like lemmings into their lowsec gate camps, even if they managed to convince themselves that they like it, eventually they have to stop because they run out of money.

But some people, having always been told how smart and special they are from their childhood, even while being a rather crappy kid, still think that everything has to be the way they say it should be, and everybody else is a carebear - or whatever term they use to denigrate others who are not as special as themselves.

Ignore the terminology, and do whatever the f**k you want. Nobody's paying your sub.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Eyup Mi'duck
Doomheim
#52 - 2011-09-28 11:00:34 UTC
There are two types of player in EVE.

Those who like to build pretty sandcastles are CAREBEARS.

Those who like to jump on carebear's sandcastles and kick them to pieces are GRIEFERS.

CAREBEARS think GRIEFERS are destructive and uncaring bullies.

GRIEFERS think that CAREBEARS are pathetic wimps with no balls for a fight.

Both are right!

However, most GRIEFERS will resort to carebearing activities to keep themselves supplied with an isk-stream, whereas most CAREBEARS prosper without griefing at all.

I am me.         I am not you.     I have my own thoughts.     I am very happy with this situation.

The Old Chap
Doomheim
#53 - 2011-09-28 11:05:39 UTC
White Tree wrote:
EVE is a PVP game. PVE is conducted to fuel PVP and the subsequent destruction of ships. PVE in EVE is bad because EVE is bad.


WRONG.

Yes, of course you can PvP in EVE but EVE is a make-a-living-and-fly-in-space-simulation-game. Many players happily exist in EVE without PvP.

Look into my eyes...   and tighten that sphincter, kid.

Zey Nadar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2011-09-28 11:07:39 UTC
Eyup Mi'duck wrote:
There are two types of player in EVE.

Those who like to build pretty sandcastles are CAREBEARS.

Those who like to jump on carebear's sandcastles and kick them to pieces are GRIEFERS.


link

This forum fails for not allowing to embed pictures..
raker
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2011-09-28 11:38:11 UTC


The fact is the game needs carebears

Carebears and those that do PVP need eachother, the carebears build and supply ships whilst the Pvpers maintain the demand by killing ships

I know chars who are in big indy corps and enjoy it, whilst I dwell in a WH and enjoy the pvp side, the game is a sandbox do what you enjoy doing

Thier may be a stigma attached to carebears, but without them the pvp guys would not have so much fun



Jokerface666
Intergalactic Expeditionary Corp
#56 - 2011-09-28 14:57:30 UTC
raker wrote:


The fact is the game needs carebears

Carebears and those that do PVP need eachother, the carebears build and supply ships whilst the Pvpers maintain the demand by killing ships

I know chars who are in big indy corps and enjoy it, whilst I dwell in a WH and enjoy the pvp side, the game is a sandbox do what you enjoy doing

Thier may be a stigma attached to carebears, but without them the pvp guys would not have so much fun


wrong, becouse most of the hardcore pvp guys are building they're ships themselve, or the big corps / alliances have got a own production line for everything.
Brenya Perircle
Trauma Ward
#57 - 2011-09-28 14:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Brenya Perircle
The Apostle wrote:
Quote:
majority of the EVE economy is player driven, wouldn't you technically need these 'carebears' to keep the economy afloat. I understand they're not people you want in PvP or those defending your miners (who also garner the stigma).

I was just wondering really and was hoping to see what the opinions are.

Easily answered. The military.

For every frontline troop there are (best guess) 10 "rear-echelon" soldiers.

No rear-echelon soldier ever needs to be "brave" "daring" or "courageous". Thus they are not "fighters" but (read) cowardly individuals unable or unwilling to fight. (That's perception, not fact)

Thus they are treated with contempt by the "leets" who, if my hypothesis is correct, aren't "leet" at all.

Take no notice. Genuinely and truly brave/courageous people are usually the first to acknowledge that the people around them are what makes them great.

Go 'Bears... Lol


I'm not really sure this analogy holds true anymore. I feel front line soldiers are perceived more as knuckle dragging grunts. Thanks Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan :D
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#58 - 2011-09-28 15:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
To me a Carebear is a TYPE of High Sec dweller. It's the kind of high sec dweller that is so fixated on "PVE" content in a world of PVP, that he ignores and neglects that it even exists. He thinks High Sec is "Safe" and that "Scams" are exploits, and so on.


If you think of Low Sec and become scared and nervous - you might be a Carebear

If you don't know what a Warp Bubble Is - you might be a Carebear

If you stroke your ego imagining your Tricked Out Faction-Fit Golem Mission Boat is going to pwnzr the next ninja looter to enter your plex - you might be a Carebear

If when you get war dec-ed in High Sec, your first instinct is to grab the biggest ship you have and undock with it - you might be a Carebear

If you're afraid of going into Low Sec with an 80 Man Incursion HQ fleet - you might be a Carebear

If you have never blown someone up, ever, in EVE - you might be a Carebear

If Null Sec 10 jumps away seems rather far away - you might be a Carebear

If Null Sec 45 jumps away REALLY seems far away - you've never used Carrier logistics... and are probably a Carebear

Finally - If all of your interactions with other players involve key presses between the letter Q to the letter M on your keyboard, and not F1-F8 - you're probably a Carebear.

Where I am.

De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2011-09-28 15:50:44 UTC
Basileus Volkan wrote:
Some people here seem to confuse the act of making money to spend it on, for example, PvP ships with the act of making money for the sake of making money.


Kill mails and ISK serve the same purpose to different people.

They're just handy ways of keeping score.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#60 - 2011-09-28 16:06:52 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


Ignore the terminology, and do whatever the f**k you want. Nobody's paying your sub.



This. Everyone has their own ideas, but the above is the plain, simple truth of it all.