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Neutrinos breaking the speed limit?
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Byshop Kayl
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-22 19:16:01 UTC
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/22/us-science-light-idUSTRE78L4FH20110922

Apparently Neutrinos were recorded going faster than light?

This challenges Einstein in a big way.
If this is true, this is very very big.

 "Sanity is the playground of the unimaginitive." -- Anonymous "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results." -- A. Einstein
Myxx
The Scope
#2 - 2011-09-22 23:01:42 UTC
So, faster than light travel is theoretically possible if its true?
Vicker Lahn'se
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-09-23 01:17:25 UTC
Byshop Kayl wrote:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/22/us-science-light-idUSTRE78L4FH20110922

Apparently Neutrinos were recorded going faster than light?

This challenges Einstein in a big way.
If this is true, this is very very big.



As with any scientific discovery, I'll be more convinced when I read the actual article in an actual scientific journal, rather than the paraphrasing of some non-scientist journalist posting on a web site.
Peri Simone
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-09-23 01:45:51 UTC
A live webcast seminar discussing these results will be broadcast from CERN between 16:00 and 18:00 Zurich Time tomorrow.

http://webcast.cern.ch/
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-09-23 07:15:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia
Skeptical

I'm in the "may be ways around the light barrier but no way through it" camp.

Should be interesting to see what they say. Maybe some goofy quantum effect where they 'appear' to be at point B before they actually arrive at point B. Perhaps they have identified a watershed where the laws as we understand them do not apply to certain subatomic particles?

Who knows, I'm certainly not a physicist but I will stay tuned to hear from people that are!
Flynn Fetladral
Tempered Aggression
Seker Matar
#6 - 2011-09-23 07:44:10 UTC
Yeah I think this needs further scrutiny. If it is true, it will be a game changer for sure.

Oh and we used a little officer mods. KIDDING! We used a lot of officers mods, A LOT! Because we don’t :censored: around in low-sec.

@flynnfetladral on #tweetfleet
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-09-23 11:43:18 UTC
twitter hashtag #mundaneneutrinoexplanations

Big smile
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2011-09-23 12:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Relativity doesn't say that things can't travel faster than c.

What it says is that objects can't accelerate through c.

This means that a particle can travel faster than light if it does so from the moment of its creation. This is why tachyons are theoretically able to go faster than light.

However, that's probably not what's happening here.

My guess is that the experimenters have made a schoolboy error such as not calibrating their timers properly, not measuring the density of the medium through which the neutrinos are passing, or not accurately measuring the distance travelled.

Or it could be an EPR spooky action at a distance caused by entanglement.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#9 - 2011-09-23 13:14:50 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:


My guess is that the experimenters have made a schoolboy error such as not calibrating their timers properly, not measuring the density of the medium through which the neutrinos are passing, or not accurately measuring the distance travelled.

Or it could be an EPR spooky action at a distance caused by entanglement.


I will post what I said in the other thread as I have similar feelings.


Slade Trillgon wrote:
Even though I think scientists jump the gun on releasing results from research and that the results from most reseach is highly sensationalized, I will not discard the likely possibility that Einstein was 'wrong' with some or most of his theories. That being said 'we' have made it quite far with those theories, so they should be respected as such.

\m/
Einstein
\m/

As fast as information travels today I believe that the ethics of research reults release needs to be modified. I will not derail any further on this topic, but it is how I feel.


Slade
Flynn Fetladral
Tempered Aggression
Seker Matar
#10 - 2011-09-23 14:23:45 UTC
If anyone is interested. You can learn more about this here, right now! http://webcast.web.cern.ch/webcast/

Oh and we used a little officer mods. KIDDING! We used a lot of officers mods, A LOT! Because we don’t :censored: around in low-sec.

@flynnfetladral on #tweetfleet
Xenial Jesse Taalo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-09-23 17:30:46 UTC
Really interesting news. Because of course the layman and other scientists are going to first consider all possibilities of a mistake in the experiment, so of course the scientists who conducted it have checked it to the ends of the earth and back. For three years in fact; they have checked it 15,000 times. Fifteen thousand.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/sep/23/physicists-speed-light-violated

The fact alone that they know how large a call it is to make, and still went ahead and made that call and published, is really something. They're asking the scientific community to find mistakes, but then you realise they are asking this on the end of 3 years of trying to find a mistake. Kinda exciting.

Obviously, any reason I or anyone here gives for skepticism is not going to be worth its salt since if we can suggest a flaw, so can and so have the people who genuinely think and work in this field. Not to mention 3 years, 15,000 measurements. But I will offer my pitiful query anyway and wonder why it is that the speed difference is so small; something like 0.002%. They state that it is definitely within the accuracy of their equipment but still, such a small difference suggests something has been stretched rather than something has been found.

Nevertheless, I won't form an opinion or support the likelihood of it going either way, because it is just out of our league.

The Neutrinos must be pretty thrilled. It's not as if anyone else is getting a look at time travel.
Holy One
Privat Party
#12 - 2011-09-23 17:46:42 UTC
Einstein/entire underpinnings of modern science = wrong

Or.

The computer dun measured it wrong.

I want to believe.

:)
Mercurye
A Lone Trek
#13 - 2011-09-23 18:31:50 UTC

While I love science (I used to be the nerdy type at youngster's astronomy camps 10 years ago X) I am much more a dreamer than a thinker, one of the reasons I decided never to pursue Astronomy or Maths; they're just not my strengths

Anyway, what we know now is what we know now: There might be alternative realities, multi-universes...there might be purple bees swarming around me as we speak. Our experience as humans is limited to what we can perceive, so who knows what "odd" and "impossible" things we have found in 500 years, they might just look back at us and think "See, those 21st century people thought it wasn't possible, just like their medieval church once said about a flat earth"
Landrae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-09-28 06:25:48 UTC
Byshop Kayl wrote:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/22/us-science-light-idUSTRE78L4FH20110922

Apparently Neutrinos were recorded going faster than light?

This challenges Einstein in a big way.
If this is true, this is very very big.



Because **** you einstien and **** relativity?

Welcome to Eve Online
Dray
C.O.D.E
#15 - 2011-09-28 08:34:50 UTC
I'm pretty sure this has been theorized before in quantum physics, either way we're talking sub atomic particles here, they just don't like the rules, relatively speaking.... ;)
Zey Nadar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-09-28 12:13:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Zey Nadar
Holy One wrote:
Einstein/entire underpinnings of modern science = wrong

Or.

The computer dun measured it wrong.

I want to believe.


There are many different possibilities of error here.

- The neutrinos arrived to observatory in Italy 60 BILLIONTHS of a second too early. Thats quite small time to be measured.

- The exact distance of the devices can be in question, the recording device in Italy is in a tunnel where GPS cannot function.

- Singular neutrinos cannot be recorded, what is recorded is one of them hitting an atom in the recording device because a huge stream of neutrinos were shot at it. Only statistical behaviour of huge quantity of neutrinos can be observed.

Its highly likely that this is merely a measuring error of some sort. Theres been too many of those in history to count.

ps. Also, please don't pretend that you understand Einsteins special theory of relativity.
Stonecold Steve
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#17 - 2011-09-28 12:35:05 UTC
If the total distance they travel is not calculated exactly (to the .00000000000 ect) the calculation will be off. CERN Has asked there Asian friends to recreate the test and to see what they get as a result.

“Hasta la muerte, todo es vida.”
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-09-28 14:45:08 UTC
Stonecold Steve wrote:
If the total distance they travel is not calculated exactly (to the .00000000000 ect) the calculation will be off. CERN Has asked there Asian friends to recreate the test and to see what they get as a result.


Supposedly their results have a five-sigma certainty level - meaning that there is a 0.00003% chance that they are wrong (systematic/experimental errors not-with-standing), which is the unofficial requirement for stating a "discovery" in the scientific community.
Cypermethren
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-09-29 08:00:21 UTC
so FTL is possible. Awesome.


You're bigger problem is going to be that a spec of spacedust will kill you and you're ship before you even approach that speed. Hell even a lugie someone spits out a space station window would cause you to go pop, the space you're traveling would have to be absolutely clear, not a spec of dust or sand for it to work.

And even then, would the the Gforce from the speed not pancake you and the ship?


They need a shield, or force field of sorts to work with it methinks.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2011-09-29 09:59:32 UTC
Cypermethren wrote:
so FTL is possible. Awesome.


You're bigger problem is going to be that a spec of spacedust will kill you and you're ship before you even approach that speed. Hell even a lugie someone spits out a space station window would cause you to go pop, the space you're traveling would have to be absolutely clear, not a spec of dust or sand for it to work.

And even then, would the the Gforce from the speed not pancake you and the ship?


They need a shield, or force field of sorts to work with it methinks.


"Gforce" is caused by acceleration, not velocity.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori