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Why is anyone using a Hulk over a Covetor.
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Kestrix
The Whispering
#101 - 2012-04-13 18:05:42 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
WHY are people using Hulks?


Becasue I have yet to lose a hulk. I've been attacked in my hulk a few times and it's stood up quite well to the attackers.
XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#102 - 2012-04-13 19:05:01 UTC
You can pull around 1300 m3 a min with miner II's and a rohk, have a medium shield booster that will run for around 5 mins straight with the miners going and about a 90k ehp tank. Has room for 5 light drones which is more than enough for any high sec rat spawn and if you shuffle the fit around you can have an insane tank and decent mining.

Given you shouldn't even need a booster if you bother to actually kill the occasional frig you can push the tank to a level where it's going to cost more than you're worth to kill or more coordination and numbers than most destroyer gangs can pull off. Or you can mine in a hulk and set 2-4 cans, pay attention and never die.

The negative I count as a plus, you have to stagger your miners and actually pay attention and move ore around every 30 seconds and you either need a hauler alt or work with others.

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#103 - 2012-04-14 02:21:09 UTC
This entire thread seems to have missed what ccp has done to help the mining comunity by making hulks easy to gank.

It gets rid of bots!

No one is looking to gank cheap miners.
If they do for the lol's, who cares, they are cheap.

A hulk can tank a small gang of destroyers in a good mining group.
One logi can rep a hulk for over 1900 def when both are over heated.

What? You need orca and logistics to mine with hulks in high sec now? ABOUT TIME!

By doing this ore prices are rising!
That's right if you play in a group and have to pay attention now you can make great isk per hour in your hulk.

CCP actually got something right.
Ships have gotten too cheap for too long.
Miners afk far too much.
Bots needed to go!
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-04-14 11:21:06 UTC
And again, like I've said in other threads: The Hulk is a broken design.

As pointed out by peoples posts, apart from cost, it utterly eclipses the Covetor in every other way. The main bonuses are cargo hold and the fact that the extra MLU and the exhumers skill give it a rather big boost in mining amounts.

Which is very wrong considering T2 are meant to be specialised vessels and not just all around better (the Skiff and Mack are designed well though, with being better at Mercox and Ice respectively).
Whitehound
#105 - 2012-04-14 12:20:19 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
It gets rid of bots!

It does not, it supports them. The weak ship designs keep away the actual players, because for us do the ships only suck. What is right is that better ships help the botters, too. If weak ships would get rid of botters then when could ultimately simply remove the ships - it is fail.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Maxine Bellorum
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2012-04-14 21:18:13 UTC
Three points:
1. The best way of patching your kb is to result to ganking lone hulks in highsec.
2. One can reduce their chances of getting ganked by dumping ore in an orca or a hauler.
3. You are still going to get ganked.
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#107 - 2012-04-15 10:52:17 UTC
People mine in Hulk's coz Hulkageddoners go after easier Covetors/Mackinaws...............P
Samroski
Middle-Earth
#108 - 2012-04-17 08:31:59 UTC
Eve is a game where people pay 1b for a module with a 0.1 sec better rate of fire. Train for a month for a 2% increase in an obscure skill. How much will this these changes impact their income/hr?

I see no issue with people wanting a ship which is 10% better at something. Cost is immaterial/relative. This is Eve.

Any colour you like.
Aaewen Hrothgarson
eXtreme Co
SLYCE Pirates
#109 - 2012-04-17 09:28:42 UTC
Dyniss wrote:
... and way more cap then a Covetor you cannot run T2 strips with T2 crystals on a Covetor plus ...


I suggest you do a "show info" on a modulated strip miner II - you'll be enlightened.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#110 - 2012-04-17 10:21:46 UTC
Maxine Bellorum wrote:
3. You are still going to get ganked.


I have yet to see first one trying...
Niko Takahashi
Yoshitomi Group
#111 - 2012-04-17 10:49:49 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
The training needed for a Hulk only needs a few extra days after one has trained for a Covetor. People think of it as a major gain when they can get from a T1 ship into a T2 ship with such a short amount of training and it becomes one of the major incentives for doing it. The Hulk not only mines a little better, but it can be rigged and fitted to hold a significantly larger amount of ore then the Covetor. It means one can stay longer in the belt and also longer away from the keyboard.

And there it is.

There it ******* is.

Miners want to engage in riskless activity to grow their wallets while they are AFK.

This does not come down to personal playstyle choices. It comes down to laziness, greed, and risk aversion of sickening proportions.


And how is that different from the hulk gankers.

lols instead of isk = Personal playstyle choice

Shooting a static undefended target in no loss ship = Riskless activity, risk aversion

Same thing if you ask me.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#112 - 2012-04-17 11:11:27 UTC
Buzzmong wrote:
And again, like I've said in other threads: The Hulk is a broken design.

As pointed out by peoples posts, apart from cost, it utterly eclipses the Covetor in every other way. The main bonuses are cargo hold and the fact that the extra MLU and the exhumers skill give it a rather big boost in mining amounts.

Which is very wrong considering T2 are meant to be specialised vessels and not just all around better (the Skiff and Mack are designed well though, with being better at Mercox and Ice respectively).


I think you misunderstand the distinction.

All T2s directly and completely outclass their T1 equivalent if they perform the same role. The distinction is where something like an Eos should not outperform a Brutix in the Brutix role, because whilst the Eos is a T2 Brutix, it is not intended for the same role.

Covetor and Hulk perform the same role, therefore the Hulk is and should be plain better. The mack on the other hand should not outperform a Covetor on asteroids.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#113 - 2012-04-17 15:41:16 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
It gets rid of bots!

It does not, it supports them. The weak ship designs keep away the actual players, because for us do the ships only suck. What is right is that better ships help the botters, too. If weak ships would get rid of botters then when could ultimately simply remove the ships - it is fail.



Keeps away the actual BAD players.

Hulk is now easier to gank.
You can help not get ganked by working in groups with logi!
Bots don't do this. Nor do bad players.
Good players make groups with logi and get more profit.
Bad players and bots move to 1.0 space and try to get by, some forced to use T1 instead.

Upgraded gank of destroyers and BC's = win for serious miners.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#114 - 2012-04-17 16:35:25 UTC
Cause the Northwestern has yet to be attacked much less destroyed even in Hulkageddon (not on this toon mind you)

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#115 - 2012-04-17 18:25:07 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
It gets rid of bots!

It does not, it supports them. The weak ship designs keep away the actual players, because for us do the ships only suck. What is right is that better ships help the botters, too. If weak ships would get rid of botters then when could ultimately simply remove the ships - it is fail.

after seeing you posting in favor of easier botting i can only conclude you are one of the many ice mining botters we butchered like swine over and over again
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#116 - 2012-04-17 20:25:12 UTC
Hulk:
Mining Barge Skill Bonus:
3% better yield for Strip Miners per level
7.5% bonus to all shield resistances per level
Exhumers Skill Bonus:
3% better yield for Strip Miners per level
3% reduction in Ice Harvester duration per level


Covetor
Mining Barge Skill Bonus: 3% better yield for Strip Miners per level

People use hulk because otherwise training exhumers would had been be a complete waste of SP.
Azemar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2012-04-17 23:33:46 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
Covetor with DC and survey scanner has 9.7k EHP and a yield of 1360
Hulk with DC and survey scanner has 21.9K EHP and a yield of 1730

That's more than 25% increase in yield while having more tank. Now compare that to people buying implants, faction BS and whatnot. They'd pay through their nose to get a 25+% increase in performance. There's your answer.




This. I use a Vindicator for all my null sec exploration activites now, over a Megathron. It's about 10x the cost and definitely not that much better. Probably like 15%.
Shepherd Finch
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2012-04-18 00:46:37 UTC
Sycho Pathic wrote:
The Hulk isn't 500% improvement over the Covetor so I see no need to spend the 500% extra for it.


When has anything in this game ever had improvements in line with the cost difference? T2 ships give about a 20% boost in performance for a 5x increase in price. Deadspace modules routinely sell at 10x the cost of T2 for a 10% improvement. Add in the fact that a Hulk, outside of Hulkageddon, will rarely be destroyed & can easily be resold makes it work as an investment.

Mining still sucks, tho.
Selak Zorander
Mord-Sith
#119 - 2012-04-18 01:24:41 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Selak Zorander wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Try not to mine AFK. You shouldn't be able to generate ISK with zero RISK.

But you can reduce the risk to near-zero.

Align. D-Scan at a reasonable range.

Warp if there's blips.

Sure it lowers efficiency in the short-term. But you live. And that's 250M+ in your pocket every time.

Make yourself a target, and that's what you are.



how do you mine AFK in a hulk...if your AFK the hold is full before the 2nd or 3rd cycle (assuming you fit a tank like every one is suggesting.

That gives you want 6 minutes before you need to either dock to empty or you have to create a jet can or move the ore to an orca or other suitable conntainer.

That does not seem very AFK to me since you have to pay attention every 6 minutes. Unless your talking about a bot that does all that for you but that is a whole different story there.

You want to know the AFK miners, go find the industrials sitting in a belt in 0.9 space with that one mining laser mining whatever rock they are parked next to for an hour or more between having to find another rock...That is AFK mining. not the 6 minutes you get from a hulk.

think about it a second. 8000 m3 cargo before expanders added. The three strip miners combined (even tech 1) pull atleast 4500 m3 of ore per three minute cycle. so yeah strip miners is not AFK mining. It may be Low attention mining but not AFK.


So you are basically trying to claim you can't be ganked between having to pay attention every six minutes to your ******* cargo hold?

Yeah, the odds are way in your favor there, genius.


No, i am saying that having to come back to your keyboard every 6 minutes is not AFK mining. its at best semi-AFK mining.

I personally consider something as AFK activity if I could start it up and walk away for 20 or more minutes with out having to do anything else and still be doing that task when i got back.

Cargo hold of a hulk or covetor being filled in 3 to 6 minutes is not an AFK activity. Ice mining in a mackinaw with enough room for 2 cycles of ice...that an AFK activity there as thats 15 to 20 minutes worth of mining.

Note that my full qoute up there never once mentions ganking. I just asked how you thought having to do something at the keyboard every 6 minutes or less was considered AFK mining?

guess that makes you the big genius now...genius.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#120 - 2012-04-18 01:40:53 UTC
Sadly I have yet to be ganked in the hulk that was free... for me.

Was ganked in my cheap salvage frig once... by a Zealot...