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Please reconsider adding Faction items to the market.
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Zoloft Rx
Forged Prophets
#1 - 2012-04-12 19:08:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoloft Rx
I have heard reports that faction items are going into the market. I feel that this change will be a problem to many players.

    Some of these issues are:
  1. Many people have tailored their eve career around being a contract salesman / corporation. They have spent months of training time to become a contractor.

    2. Some of this training time probably included the training of skills to reduce taxes and broker fees. These fee-related skills will also be wasted time for many contract careers. Many people only trained these skills for contract use only. Playing on the market may not have been an option for these players, and thus, these fee-related skills would of never been trained so high.

  2. Sellers have the option to sell exactly who they want to sell to. eg. If I see a guy who was undercutting by 1 isk, I can sell my items to the guy who got undercut just because I feel sorry for him. In the market system, i have no option and I'm forced to sell to the under-cutter.

  3. Contracts provide shelter from .01 ISK games. Moving faction items tot he market will force many players to find a new eve- career.

  4. Contracts system allows players to find items and compare prices anywhere in eve. A player can find a cheaper deal in a different region such as 0.0 space.

  5. Contracts help create PVP. When a player easily finds an item via contract in distant 0.0 or lowsec, he now has to find a way to get it out.

  6. Contracts are a different way of trading which adds depth to eve. One less career in the game.



Moving faction items to the market will also be the deletion of an in-game career for many players.

Please do not move faction items to the market.
Tressin Khiyne
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-04-12 19:25:23 UTC
I'm pretty sure you can click on any order in the market and pay/buy from that order. Can't confirm it cause I'm at work, but I seem to remember doing this out of spite before.

Otherwise I agree. I'm not much of a trader myself, but I think the complexity that contracts add to the market is a GOOD thing. I haven't noticed any positives from putting faction ships on the market. I can see the desire to move trade to the market and services to contracts, but OP is correct that by doing so you kill off an entire avenue of play.
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-04-12 19:40:19 UTC
personally I love the change, it'll create a pretty diverse regional market system when it comes to deadspace/faction gear. With contracts its pretty much set universe wide when it comes to prices. More varients more oppitunities.

I lied :o
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#4 - 2012-04-12 19:49:06 UTC
I'm probably one of the single largest faction goods resellers in Eve excluding the now defunct West & Gray (really, look up my corp contract history) and I disagree.

Sorry.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Tressin Khiyne
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-04-12 19:55:44 UTC
corestwo wrote:
I'm probably one of the single largest faction goods resellers in Eve excluding the now defunct West & Gray (really, look up my corp contract history) and I disagree.

Sorry.


I'm going to side with this guy, since his avatar is so awesome.
Zoloft Rx
Forged Prophets
#6 - 2012-04-12 21:26:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoloft Rx
corestwo wrote:
I'm probably one of the single largest faction goods resellers in Eve excluding the now defunct West & Gray (really, look up my corp contract history) and I disagree.

Sorry.


Well im pretty sure many of us know why west and grey is defunct... thats beyond the scope of my post.

While it may make it easier for you personally to sell your many items (since your a major dealer with lots of deals), this is going to hurt the smaller business who operate on a smaller scale of your own.

And i believe you would have to agree that you will have wasted skill training for contracts.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#7 - 2012-04-12 21:33:15 UTC
Zoloft Rx wrote:

And i believe you would have to agree that you will have wasted skill training for contracts.


Maxed corporate contracting on three different characters.


Still fine with it, still not complaining.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Zoloft Rx
Forged Prophets
#8 - 2012-04-12 21:49:40 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Zoloft Rx wrote:

And i believe you would have to agree that you will have wasted skill training for contracts.


Maxed corporate contracting on three different characters.


Still fine with it, still not complaining.


For many people, these skills will be useless. They buy and sell using contracts. These maxed skills wont be needed any longer.

They will have to train other trade skills to catch up to compete when the change takes place. I hope they're paying attention and start their training now.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#9 - 2012-04-12 21:53:05 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
"This change will inconvenience or eliminate a business model shared by myself and a small section of the Eve universe" isn't really a reason to not do something.

Sorry.

Tressin Khiyne wrote:
I'm pretty sure you can click on any order in the market and pay/buy from that order.

You cannot. Regardless of which order you try to buy or sell from, it will always give the order to the lowest seller or highest buyer, but at the price you "offered" by trying to pick a different order; eg, if you try to launder money from one alt to another by "accidentally" buying the shuttle you listed at 10b isk, you will instead pay the lowest seller 10b isk for the shuttle he has listed for 9k; conversely, if you try to sell your Thulium (for example, since I have it up right now) to the guy buying for 1740, you will instead sell it to the guy who's offering 3006, for 1740.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Zoloft Rx
Forged Prophets
#10 - 2012-04-12 21:53:54 UTC
Tressin Khiyne wrote:
I'm pretty sure you can click on any order in the market and pay/buy from that order.


If the market could show whose the buyer and seller, it would sure make things a bit more interesting.
DonHel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-04-12 22:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: DonHel
pretty sure the OP is mad cause he has less chance of scamming with contract now Lol just a guess, could be wrong

otherwise I dont see what the problem could be.. stuff should sell better now
DonHel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-04-12 22:49:16 UTC
[double post crap
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#13 - 2012-04-12 22:50:40 UTC
OP - if this is a Troll you get full marks. If you are serious you should immediately pod and biomass yourself. Adding faction items to the market is good for everyone.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
#14 - 2012-04-13 16:25:23 UTC
Agree with OP, basically removing my profession that I greatly enjoy from the game for a silly reason. I bet the market botters are all salivating.
Stabs McShiv
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#15 - 2012-04-14 08:38:38 UTC
Bye bye contract scammer's. Contracts will still work you will just have slightly less opportunity to fleece the stupid but its not like your eve 'profession' entailed any risk anyway.
Endeavour Starfleet
#16 - 2012-04-14 08:50:00 UTC
Sorry but this is a GREAT change.

Contract scamming has virtually ruined the system and turned off people from investing in some nice stuff to go PVP with :P There may have truly been a few folks who actually did real buying and trading of these items. Yet the vast majority were likely using those skills to put up scam after scam.

This is a great change and will also help reduce some of the crazy high costs for these items.
Noriko Mai
#17 - 2012-04-14 10:53:18 UTC
And the best thing is that you now have a price history.
Contracts are crap for trading.
They are only good for direct item exchange (with or without money).

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Black Dranzer
#18 - 2012-04-14 10:53:20 UTC
For 1, I'm going to have to go with "the needs of many outweigh the needs of a few". The contract system should be limited to things that the market can not realistically handle, like pre-fitted ships and large item packages.

For 2 and 3, this should be market functionality. I should have the option of paying for goods from a specific market order. As it stands, I can't.

4 is a point that I have no solid rebuttal against. Perhaps we need a skill for investigating the market details in foreign regions.

5 still persists with existing items and courier contracts.

6 is a non-issue. You could give each section of the market its own skill tree. That would create a ton of specific careers. That wouldn't necessarily make things good. Simplification is not a dirty word.

Walking in Stations as a Social Hub: Business vs Pleasure in Incarna
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#19 - 2012-04-14 11:43:51 UTC
blame the scamers, not ccp.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-04-14 22:48:06 UTC
I have three words for you: Boo, hoo, hoo.

You can still put them up on contracts, as a matter of fact it is a good thing that they are going into the market as well, as you can compare contract price with the regional price.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
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