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Podding Counter Measures

Author
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#21 - 2012-04-12 19:10:23 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Chicken Pizza wrote:
I have never lost a pod to circumstances beyond my control.

DECOYS: No. It's already hard enough to lock a pod before it warps off, unless you're running some serious sensor booster shenanigans. This would just promote smartbombs more, and make them far more popular than they need to be. I'm already sick of smartbombing battleships on the gates. Let's not encourage them further.

EMP REBOOT: No. As stated before, this will just promote kamikaze pilots flying into enemy fleets just to jam everyone, which would be a far too easily exploitable mechanic.

MICRO JUMP: I'm assuming you've never tried to pod someone. This is an incredibly bad idea, as pods will just *poof* after the ship blows up, eliminating any potential risk for whatever implants he may have had. This is contradictory to the whole theme of pods being lock-able in the first place.

Then this won't affect you at all, and you won't gain or lose any kill mails because of it.


On the contrary, the effects from a ship blowing up would affect me as much as everybody else. I've already stated how, but you don't seem to want to actually oppose any of it specifically. The point isn't that MY ship blowing up would be a problem to me specifically. It's everyone else's ships that are the problem.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#22 - 2012-04-12 19:15:44 UTC
Chicken Pizza wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
And as Kusum Fawn pointed out, they can become clever weapons for those willing to sacrifice their ships to use them.


I wouldn't really call an Atron warping into an enemy fleet, blowing up, and jamming all of them a "sacrifice".

Ah, well, you could call it a good use of resources then.

An Atron though? I would expect the effect to have a limited range, not just everything on grid.
If the fleet was blobbed that closely together, they probably deserved it.

I would expect something along the lines of 2x to 3x smartbomb range for that ship type as a guideline.
After all, a smaller ship has limited resources to draw upon.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-04-12 19:18:45 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Chicken Pizza wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
And as Kusum Fawn pointed out, they can become clever weapons for those willing to sacrifice their ships to use them.


I wouldn't really call an Atron warping into an enemy fleet, blowing up, and jamming all of them a "sacrifice".

Ah, well, you could call it a good use of resources then.

An Atron though? I would expect the effect to have a limited range, not just everything on grid.
If the fleet was blobbed that closely together, they probably deserved it.

I would expect something along the lines of 2x to 3x smartbomb range for that ship type as a guideline.
After all, a smaller ship has limited resources to draw upon.

So how does one counter the fact that every time they kill someone they get jammed? Not killing them isn't a good answer.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#24 - 2012-04-12 19:27:24 UTC
Chicken Pizza wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Chicken Pizza wrote:
I have never lost a pod to circumstances beyond my control.

DECOYS: No. It's already hard enough to lock a pod before it warps off, unless you're running some serious sensor booster shenanigans. This would just promote smartbombs more, and make them far more popular than they need to be. I'm already sick of smartbombing battleships on the gates. Let's not encourage them further.

EMP REBOOT: No. As stated before, this will just promote kamikaze pilots flying into enemy fleets just to jam everyone, which would be a far too easily exploitable mechanic.

MICRO JUMP: I'm assuming you've never tried to pod someone. This is an incredibly bad idea, as pods will just *poof* after the ship blows up, eliminating any potential risk for whatever implants he may have had. This is contradictory to the whole theme of pods being lock-able in the first place.

Then this won't affect you at all, and you won't gain or lose any kill mails because of it.


On the contrary, the effects from a ship blowing up would affect me as much as everybody else. I've already stated how, but you don't seem to want to actually oppose any of it specifically. The point isn't that MY ship blowing up would be a problem to me specifically. It's everyone else's ships that are the problem.

Oh, as you wish then.

Decoys: Sensor boosters are indeed in serious use, as are smartbombing ships. I only tend to use smartbombs defensively, but I can see that being a trump card versus this version. Nothing is perfect, and this gives no gaurantee for survival.

EMP REBOOT: I fail to recognize when people jump to conclusions I had not expected, my bad. This device is intended to have a range. Based on in-game examples, I would expect a bigger ship to max out at 15 KM, a smaller ship less than that.

Micro Jump: If going poof is considered too extreme when someone takes the time to plan ahead, then the concept of precautions may be lost to some. Try to remember, it is a micro jump, not a clone jump to your safe and snug captains quarters. They still need to get somewhere safe, and can still be killed.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#25 - 2012-04-12 19:33:19 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
So how does one counter the fact that every time they kill someone they get jammed? Not killing them isn't a good answer.

Not at all, that is exaggerating this concept to think every pilot will have it all the time.
This is a rig or module that sacrifices other items in order to be fitted. I am leaning towards it being a rig.

For example: If everyone used stabs, then it would take multiple points to lock down anyone. Just because something is there, does not mean it will be used.
Now, pointing that out, someone who goes to the trouble of travel fitting a ship might put stabs on, as well as the countermeasure. People who plan ahead for problems tend to get better results.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#26 - 2012-04-12 19:39:52 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
WTB > that loki fit

Hehe:


[Loki, Nuff ScanRes?]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
True Sansha Energized Reactive Membrane
True Sansha Energized Magnetic Membrane
Gyrostabilizer II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Shadow Serpentis Warp Disruptor
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, EMP M

Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller II
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller II

Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization


Hornet EC-300 x10



3639 scan res with normal fleet boosts and quafe :)

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#27 - 2012-04-12 19:43:57 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Oh, as you wish then.

Decoys: Sensor boosters are indeed in serious use, as are smartbombing ships. I only tend to use smartbombs defensively, but I can see that being a trump card versus this version. Nothing is perfect, and this gives no gaurantee for survival.

EMP REBOOT: I fail to recognize when people jump to conclusions I had not expected, my bad. This device is intended to have a range. Based on in-game examples, I would expect a bigger ship to max out at 15 KM, a smaller ship less than that.

Micro Jump: If going poof is considered too extreme when someone takes the time to plan ahead, then the concept of precautions may be lost to some. Try to remember, it is a micro jump, not a clone jump to your safe and snug captains quarters. They still need to get somewhere safe, and can still be killed.


1. Well, Sebos are only in serious use for specific purposes. Usually, it is to catch something at a gate, lock a pod after popping a ship, or other things of that nature. Very rarely do people nerf their PvP fittings and all crowd around a ship they're about to blow up with sensor boosters, remote sensor boosters, links, and implants just to catch a pod that probably doesn't have anything in it. I'm not too worried about the smartbombs, currently. But I'd probably become VERY worried if this were implemented, because many ships have extra high slots that would be perfect for a smartbomb or two.

2. Range is all good, but being a blasterboat fan, I don't like the concept of being jammed for 30 or even 20 seconds every time I pop something, as I will inevitably be in range of each and every jam. I also don't like the idea of my drones being jammed every time something dies near them. This would be a huge gamebreaker. It would also effectively remove sniper fleets from the game, as they tend to group closely enough(fleet warps, align together, etc.) that if one dies, most of them will be jammed.

3. It's quite literally impossible to kill a competent pilot in his/her pod, hopping safe spots. I've hopped safes/celestials for 20-30 minutes at a time in 0.0 in ships much larger than pods. All you have to do to get safe is hop safes until you can log off. Basing the reasoning on pilots who don't know what they're doing makes it an inherently flawed concept.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#28 - 2012-04-12 20:09:28 UTC
Chicken Pizza wrote:
1. Well, Sebos are only in serious use for specific purposes. Usually, it is to catch something at a gate, lock a pod after popping a ship, or other things of that nature. Very rarely do people nerf their PvP fittings and all crowd around a ship they're about to blow up with sensor boosters, remote sensor boosters, links, and implants just to catch a pod that probably doesn't have anything in it. I'm not too worried about the smartbombs, currently. But I'd probably become VERY worried if this were implemented, because many ships have extra high slots that would be perfect for a smartbomb or two.

2. Range is all good, but being a blasterboat fan, I don't like the concept of being jammed for 30 or even 20 seconds every time I pop something, as I will inevitably be in range of each and every jam. I also don't like the idea of my drones being jammed every time something dies near them. This would be a huge gamebreaker. It would also effectively remove sniper fleets from the game, as they tend to group closely enough(fleet warps, align together, etc.) that if one dies, most of them will be jammed.

3. It's quite literally impossible to kill a competent pilot in his/her pod, hopping safe spots. I've hopped safes/celestials for 20-30 minutes at a time in 0.0 in ships much larger than pods. All you have to do to get safe is hop safes until you can log off. Basing the reasoning on pilots who don't know what they're doing makes it an inherently flawed concept.

1, Sebo section Decoys: You are right, smartbombs would be effective against this.
Many things have a counter. Stabs won't help you if they put up a warp bubble, but a Tengu with the right fittings would glide through that. Keeps it interesting, not knowing what the other guys has ready...

2. Jamming EMP blast: Not everyone will have this, although people who plan ahead with travel fits might consider it. They also might have warp stabs, a cloak, who knows?
As to the sniper fleets, if one of them is dumb enough to mount a countermeasure and has it active on the ship they use, the FC should pod them personally. A fleet fit should NEVER need countermeasures like this one, they already have safety in numbers to not need travel fits.

3. Pod Micro Jump: Expecting to be able to kill a competent pilot who plans ahead enough to travel fit his ship, succeeding in destroying that ship, and then being upset that you were unable to pod him... you do expect a lot, and think little of his abilities as well. However, he still needs to get home, although as you say, he may be using caution and log off entirely to avoid you.
Even careful people who are competent and plan ahead make mistakes, you should frame such killmails as trophies, as they should represent victories against worthy opponents indeed.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-04-12 20:19:50 UTC
Have you ever tried to scan down a pod? It can't be done. Getting your pod blown up should be a real and serious danger. Also looking at your kb you need to work on your pressing of the warp button.
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-04-12 21:08:24 UTC
I've shot a few pods in my time.

I'll just reiterate what everyone else is saying - the system is fine the way it is. The only way to lose your pod in high/lowsec is to literally sit there like a startled rabbit and do absolutely nothing while they spend 2-5 seconds locking your pod. Pods instawarp and everyone knows or should know that if you know you're going to go down you start spamming warp on a celestial like your ass is on fire, because it's about to be.

In nullsec things change, but none of your ideas would do anything about getting caught in bubbles. Again, even if you jump alone into a roaming gang (I hope you weren't ignoring intel and jumped into a camp that's been there for hours...) and know you have no chance whatsoever of getting your ship out, you can still usually burn to the edge of bubble and get your pod out. If you're in an honest-to-god fight making sure you don't die in a bubble is one of the tactical considerations you need to consider if you like to pvp with implants and again, it's fine the way it is.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#31 - 2012-04-12 21:11:48 UTC
mxzf wrote:
If you have a decent internet connection and aren't in a bubble or being smartbombed, you can always get your pod out. The system works perfectly well as-is, just requires a competent pilot.



Sorry it does not work perfectly. It works pretty unreliably in fact. It seems to be working pretty well lately but every now and then a patch/expansion comes out and makes it a crap shoot. Some people can warp out pods and fly with expensive implants others can't.

The whole pod warfare in eve could use some work. I am not much for games where you mash/spam a single button ftw.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#32 - 2012-04-12 22:50:21 UTC
Cearain wrote:
[quote=mxzf]Sorry it does not work perfectly. It works pretty unreliably in fact. It seems to be working pretty well lately but every now and then a patch/expansion comes out and makes it a crap shoot. Some people can warp out pods and fly with expensive implants others can't.

The whole pod warfare in eve could use some work. I am not much for games where you mash/spam a single button ftw.

Agreed here.

The idea that you are trying to signal your pod to warp, and it is not obvious when it will start listening to you due to the session change from your ship, suggests some bizarre form of confusion.

Perhaps this is to demonstrate how it is disorienting to have your ship blown up, and you need a moment to reconnect with your systems, I don't really care.
My point is there exists a period where you are mashing the warp command, in order to try and catch it before someone is able to lock you up and pop your pod.

A pilot trying to be prepared, especially with a travel fit, would want to have something.
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