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Devoter can easily go above 200k ehp
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Aamrr
#21 - 2012-04-11 19:37:24 UTC
Unfortunately, Liang, those numbers are badly off. Neglecting specific hull resistance bonuses (from the spaceship command skills), the base kinetic and explosive resists for any Minmatar ship will be 40% and 50%, respectively. Only EM and Thermal are changed in their transition from T1 to T2 hulls.

That said, some ships receive a larger bonus than others, and with EM and Therm starting from 0% and 20%, it's not uncommon at all for T2 Minmatar ships to retain an EM or Thermal hole -- taking even more damage from these sources than kinetic.

In general, the more resilient a particular ship class is, the greater the impact of the primary and secondary resist bonuses. Shooting lasers at a Stiletto (10% resist) is a smart move. Shooting it at a Wolf (75% resist) is an exercise in futility. Particularly resilient ship classes such as Heavy Interdictors and Fleet Command Ships usually possess a universal resistance bonus on top of this.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#22 - 2012-04-11 19:52:05 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
Unfortunately, Liang, those numbers are badly off. Neglecting specific hull resistance bonuses (from the spaceship command skills), the base kinetic and explosive resists for any Minmatar ship will be 40% and 50%, respectively. Only EM and Thermal are changed in their transition from T1 to T2 hulls.

That said, some ships receive a larger bonus than others, and with EM and Therm starting from 0% and 20%, it's not uncommon at all for T2 Minmatar ships to retain an EM or Thermal hole -- taking even more damage from these sources than kinetic.

In general, the more resilient a particular ship class is, the greater the impact of the primary and secondary resist bonuses. Shooting lasers at a Stiletto (10% resist) is a smart move. Shooting it at a Wolf (75% resist) is an exercise in futility. Particularly resilient ship classes such as Heavy Interdictors and Fleet Command Ships usually possess a universal resistance bonus on top of this.


That's a lot of :words: to tell me a lot of stuff that I already know quite well. The only meat of your post (to me) is that eve.wikia.com has bad values for resists. Both wiki.eveonline.com and chruker tell me that EM/Thm is usually higher - despite my rather strong recollection that Kin/Thm T2 resists were relatively weak on Minnie T2.

I'm more than happy to be wrong about it though. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Aamrr
#23 - 2012-04-12 16:02:45 UTC
And yet you're the one that couldn't recognize the obvious error when a T2 Minmatar ship supposedly possesses a buffed explosive resist. While you might have known what I said already, your post certainly gave no indication of it -- and since this is a public forum, I usually go to some effort to add a level of detail for those that might not know these things yet. It's what makes the difference between being a pretentious jerk or part of an accessible community.

While you correctly state that kinetic is a safe bet for attacking Minmatar ships, EM is the weakest shield resist on no fewer than 7 T2 Minmatar hulls, including the Panther, Cheetah, Claw, Stiletto, Sabre, Vargur, and Hound. Considering there are only 21 T2 hulls, it's worth pointing out that your very vague heuristic misses the weak resist 33% of the time.

As a final point, thermal is never the single weakest resist. EM or kinetic are always at least as good. When you're choosing between EMP and Phased Plasma rounds or Mjolnir and Inferno missiles? That's definitely worth remembering.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#24 - 2012-04-12 16:07:16 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
And yet you're the one that couldn't recognize the obvious error when a T2 Minmatar ship supposedly possesses a buffed explosive resist. While you might have known what I said already, your post certainly gave no indication of it -- and since this is a public forum, I usually go to some effort to add a level of detail for those that might not know these things yet. It's what makes the difference between being a pretentious jerk or part of an accessible community.

While you correctly state that kinetic is a safe bet for attacking Minmatar ships, EM is the weakest shield resist on no fewer than 7 T2 Minmatar hulls, including the Panther, Cheetah, Claw, Stiletto, Sabre, Vargur, and Hound. Considering there are only 21 T2 hulls, it's worth pointing out that your very vague heuristic misses the weak resist 33% of the time.


Roll

Quote:

As a final point, thermal is never the single weakest resist. EM or kinetic are always at least as good. When you're choosing between EMP and Phased Plasma rounds or Mjolnir and Inferno missiles? That's definitely worth remembering.


I never said it was? Come on now.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Aamrr
#25 - 2012-04-12 16:20:42 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Roll

Whatever can I say to a stunning argument like that? Well done, sir. Well done.
Nydia Carver
Bacon Corp
#26 - 2012-04-12 16:21:36 UTC
EM hole Caldari
Thermal hole Amarr
Kinetic hole Minmatar
Explosive hole Gallente

It´s not that hard...
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#27 - 2012-04-12 16:23:03 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Roll

Whatever can I say to a stunning argument like that? Well done, sir. Well done.


It was more commentary on your priggishness than your argument.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#28 - 2012-04-12 16:23:29 UTC
Nydia Carver wrote:
EM hole Caldari
Thermal hole Amarr
Kinetic hole Minmatar
Explosive hole Gallente

It´s not that hard...


That's the primary hole which nobody was confused about. ;-)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Aamrr
#29 - 2012-04-12 16:29:02 UTC
Well, except on those seven hulls I already mentioned, where they behave more akin to T1 hulls than T2.
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