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Podding Counter Measures

Author
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#1 - 2012-04-12 14:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Nikk Narrel
EDIT: This service was never intended to be free, and would not be cost effective for newer pilots at all. My bad for assuming that was obvious and not saying it up front.

It happens with almost every podding, the ship is destroyed by hostile fire, and before the pod can orient and leave, it is locked and fired upon.

For ships that expect to be destroyed, the pod is too often treated like a worthless after thought. Little to no preparation goes into preserving it. This makes no sense, and suggests that pilots wake up in expensive clones and don't plan ahead.

DECOYS: The ship explodes, but inside the hull were a set of one-time use drones designed to resemble pods. Each will attempt to align to a random system body, but only the real pod actually ends up going to warp.

EMP REBOOT: the pod launch coincided with an EMP bomb, specifically designed to flood all sensor wavelengths and jam them. Nothing can be targeted for 30 seconds by anyone, friendly or hostile.

MICRO JUMP: The ship's final act is to not just launch the pod, but micro jump it forward in whatever direction the ship was facing, exactly 1,000 KM.

Thoughts?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-04-12 14:35:29 UTC
If you have a decent internet connection and aren't in a bubble or being smartbombed, you can always get your pod out. The system works perfectly well as-is, just requires a competent pilot.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#3 - 2012-04-12 14:39:34 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
It happens with almost every podding, the ship is destroyed by hostile fire, and before the pod can orient and leave, it is locked and fired upon.

For ships that expect to be destroyed, the pod is too often treated like a worthless after thought. Little to no preparation goes into preserving it. This makes no sense, and suggests that pilots wake up in expensive clones and don't plan ahead.

DECOYS: The ship explodes, but inside the hull were a set of one-time use drones designed to resemble pods. Each will attempt to align to a random system body, but only the real pod actually ends up going to warp.

EMP REBOOT: the pod launch coincided with an EMP bomb, specifically designed to flood all sensor wavelengths and jam them. Nothing can be targeted for 30 seconds by anyone, friendly or hostile.

MICRO JUMP: The ship's final act is to not just launch the pod, but micro jump it forward in whatever direction the ship was facing, exactly 1,000 KM.

Thoughts?

1) Decoys, yay more incentive to blob.

2) Kamikaze alts in t1 frigs now = free AOE ECM.

3) 1,000km. Get out of jail free card?

Unless you're in null sec you shouldn't be losing pods, and if you're in null sec none of these ideas are going to help you get out of that bubble.

If you are getting killed by that split second delay in Empire, you either aren't spamming warp or you just got killed by an insta-locker. Either way, you deserve to die. It happens. Live with it.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#4 - 2012-04-12 14:40:16 UTC
mxzf wrote:
If you have a decent internet connection and aren't in a bubble or being smartbombed, you can always get your pod out. The system works perfectly well as-is, just requires a competent pilot.

Not for nothing, but you just gave three specific conditions, (none of which are rare events), where a smart pilot would not have a good chance of getting out.

Also, this would not be free, and for newer pilots would not even be cost effective. (Clones at lower SP are not too much ISK)

So, for the pilots who may be concerned with bubbles, smart bombing opponents, or just worried about lag hitting them at the wrong time, here is this idea for you to consider.
MushroomMushroom
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-04-12 15:15:26 UTC
Its hard enough to catch pods in empire space as is, basically requiring the incompetence of the pilot whose ship is destroyed.

Option 2 would be extremely overpowered, for 50m or less every hero dictor pilot in the game would buy the counter measure, bubble, get blown up, 30s ecm against enemy fleet... for 500m every FC of a major fleet would buy it, FC dies, entire fleet essentially gets a get out of jail free card.

Option 3 removes 90% of the risk of using extremely expensive implants, once a pod is 1000km away, no one is every going to catch it unless the pilot is fail. Get out, warp safes for 15m, log until someone brings your new ship.

Option 1 is the only realistic option, but wouldn't save you in a bubble, or against a smart bomber, and would only remove the skill of warping out immediately when your ship blows up.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-04-12 15:28:13 UTC
Actually, I belive pods should take 30 seconds to get into warp and like the new CONCORD fix, pods should be able to warp at all when the ship is destroyed (By CONCORD, another player, self destruct, NPC). Why? Because from the emergency of being jettisioned from the ship causes the pilot to be ejected from the ship at high speed to save his life and the pod needs time to reboot systems. Hey, our computers still need time to reboot when turned off and even putting to stand by...takes a few extra seconds to go to fully operational standards.

And no more need to clone updating but you can still lose experience, since EVE needs more risk and all the hardcores want it (as in, remove the need to update a clone but you still lose SP like you forgot to upgrade the clone). Now everyone loses SP with higher risk, since the pod can't get away as quickly Lol.

*munches popcorn* Oh yes, this is a good and viable suggestion to make EVE more risky. Don't want to lose that pod *tosses more popcorn into mouth* don't engage what you can't take on Twisted. Also, gankers can gank a hulk then bring another ship for the pod knowing the miner lost Exhumer level 5 by their action Blink
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#7 - 2012-04-12 16:44:58 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Actually, I belive pods should take 30 seconds to get into warp and like the new CONCORD fix, pods should be able to warp at all when the ship is destroyed (By CONCORD, another player, self destruct, NPC). Why? Because from the emergency of being jettisioned from the ship causes the pilot to be ejected from the ship at high speed to save his life and the pod needs time to reboot systems. Hey, our computers still need time to reboot when turned off and even putting to stand by...takes a few extra seconds to go to fully operational standards.

And no more need to clone updating but you can still lose experience, since EVE needs more risk and all the hardcores want it (as in, remove the need to update a clone but you still lose SP like you forgot to upgrade the clone). Now everyone loses SP with higher risk, since the pod can't get away as quickly Lol.

*munches popcorn* Oh yes, this is a good and viable suggestion to make EVE more risky. Don't want to lose that pod *tosses more popcorn into mouth* don't engage what you can't take on Twisted. Also, gankers can gank a hulk then bring another ship for the pod knowing the miner lost Exhumer level 5 by their action Blink

I admire your sense of humor.

Something to consider, is that my idea could make experienced pilots MORE willing to engage in PvP. They will likely be closer to the action if their pod survives, and they will have more ISK to put into ships for future fights.

A pilot that loses SP, on the other hand, potentially has no chance to get back into the fight until they regain the points needed to fly ship X. Additionally, if this was the only role they could effectively fill, they may as well leave their character in station training to regain usefulness.
( A basi pilot loses significant functionality if their logi skill drops from 5 to 4. It can make the difference as to whether it is worth it to undock if your fleet fit is no longer cap stable. )
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#8 - 2012-04-12 17:27:14 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
A pilot that loses SP, on the other hand, potentially has no chance to get back into the fight until they regain the points needed to fly ship X. Additionally, if this was the only role they could effectively fill, they may as well leave their character in station training to regain usefulness.
( A basi pilot loses significant functionality if their logi skill drops from 5 to 4. It can make the difference as to whether it is worth it to undock if your fleet fit is no longer cap stable. )


There's only two ways to lose SP: die in a T3 (not a big issue, just a little loss), or be a moron and fly without a clone.

Losing a pod is a reasonable and real consequence of losing a fight and screwing up your escape. All of your ideas were bad ideas. Either being completely and utterly gamebreaking (like AoE jamming when a ship dies or your pod suddenly jumping 1k km away) or pretty much pointless and lame (decoy pods).
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-04-12 17:43:39 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
EDIT: This service was never intended to be free, and would not be cost effective for newer pilots at all. My bad for assuming that was obvious and not saying it up front.



its not the newer pilots that would be exploiting it. it would be the older pilots with isk to burn and dictors to lose. disrupt probe + free falcon esque effects? Im in, and i dont even have that much isk to burn. but if i can kill every single little gate camp? awesome.

I dont ever have to pod till my smartbombers get there.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#10 - 2012-04-12 18:32:49 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
A pilot that loses SP, on the other hand, potentially has no chance to get back into the fight until they regain the points needed to fly ship X. Additionally, if this was the only role they could effectively fill, they may as well leave their character in station training to regain usefulness.
( A basi pilot loses significant functionality if their logi skill drops from 5 to 4. It can make the difference as to whether it is worth it to undock if your fleet fit is no longer cap stable. )


There's only two ways to lose SP: die in a T3 (not a big issue, just a little loss), or be a moron and fly without a clone.

Losing a pod is a reasonable and real consequence of losing a fight and screwing up your escape. All of your ideas were bad ideas. Either being completely and utterly gamebreaking (like AoE jamming when a ship dies or your pod suddenly jumping 1k km away) or pretty much pointless and lame (decoy pods).

You win the award for quoting out of context.

As you had already given the conditions that justify my idea, I find your comments with no further justifications pointless and somewhat of a let down.

Please try harder to be constructive. Some of your other posts indicate a decent mind at work.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-04-12 18:35:30 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
A pilot that loses SP, on the other hand, potentially has no chance to get back into the fight until they regain the points needed to fly ship X. Additionally, if this was the only role they could effectively fill, they may as well leave their character in station training to regain usefulness.
( A basi pilot loses significant functionality if their logi skill drops from 5 to 4. It can make the difference as to whether it is worth it to undock if your fleet fit is no longer cap stable. )


There's only two ways to lose SP: die in a T3 (not a big issue, just a little loss), or be a moron and fly without a clone.

Losing a pod is a reasonable and real consequence of losing a fight and screwing up your escape. All of your ideas were bad ideas. Either being completely and utterly gamebreaking (like AoE jamming when a ship dies or your pod suddenly jumping 1k km away) or pretty much pointless and lame (decoy pods).

You win the award for quoting out of context.

As you had already given the conditions that justify my idea, I find your comments with no further justifications pointless and somewhat of a let down.

Please try harder to be constructive. Some of your other posts indicate a decent mind at work.

How about this then: we don't like your idea.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#12 - 2012-04-12 18:36:13 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
EDIT: This service was never intended to be free, and would not be cost effective for newer pilots at all. My bad for assuming that was obvious and not saying it up front.



its not the newer pilots that would be exploiting it. it would be the older pilots with isk to burn and dictors to lose. disrupt probe + free falcon esque effects? Im in, and i dont even have that much isk to burn. but if i can kill every single little gate camp? awesome.

I dont ever have to pod till my smartbombers get there.

You just advocated for my idea in a backhanded way. Thank you for pointing out these details.

Put differently: Are you willing to sacrifice your ship, and risk being podded? Then if you plan ahead, you can take advantage of the countermeasure's effects in an offensive tactical maneuver.

You will need help to pull off the stunt Kusum described, but an offensive strategy to gank gate campers is sure to put an exciting spin on events.

Noone should be safe in EVE, even gate campers need to have risks...
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#13 - 2012-04-12 18:37:33 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
How about this then: we don't like your idea.

All I hear is "Waaaah, I don't have a good argument or idea for this post...."
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-04-12 18:49:15 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
How about this then: we don't like your idea.

All I hear is "Waaaah, I don't have a good argument or idea for this post...."

Pods instawarp, they don't NEED countermeasures to survive, their speed is enough. Even with a ****** internet connection spamming the "warp to" button frequently will get your pod into warp before you have even finished loading.
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#15 - 2012-04-12 19:01:32 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
EDIT: This service was never intended to be free, and would not be cost effective for newer pilots at all. My bad for assuming that was obvious and not saying it up front.

It happens with almost every podding, the ship is destroyed by hostile fire, and before the pod can orient and leave, it is locked and fired upon.

For ships that expect to be destroyed, the pod is too often treated like a worthless after thought. Little to no preparation goes into preserving it. This makes no sense, and suggests that pilots wake up in expensive clones and don't plan ahead.

DECOYS: The ship explodes, but inside the hull were a set of one-time use drones designed to resemble pods. Each will attempt to align to a random system body, but only the real pod actually ends up going to warp.

EMP REBOOT: the pod launch coincided with an EMP bomb, specifically designed to flood all sensor wavelengths and jam them. Nothing can be targeted for 30 seconds by anyone, friendly or hostile.

MICRO JUMP: The ship's final act is to not just launch the pod, but micro jump it forward in whatever direction the ship was facing, exactly 1,000 KM.

Thoughts?


I have never lost a pod to circumstances beyond my control.

DECOYS: No. It's already hard enough to lock a pod before it warps off, unless you're running some serious sensor booster shenanigans. This would just promote smartbombs more, and make them far more popular than they need to be. I'm already sick of smartbombing battleships on the gates. Let's not encourage them further.

EMP REBOOT: No. As stated before, this will just promote kamikaze pilots flying into enemy fleets just to jam everyone, which would be a far too easily exploitable mechanic.

MICRO JUMP: I'm assuming you've never tried to pod someone. This is an incredibly bad idea, as pods will just *poof* after the ship blows up, eliminating any potential risk for whatever implants he may have had. This is contradictory to the whole theme of pods being lock-able in the first place.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#16 - 2012-04-12 19:02:26 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Pods instawarp, they don't NEED countermeasures to survive, their speed is enough. Even with a ****** internet connection spamming the "warp to" button frequently will get your pod into warp before you have even finished loading.

This.

I used to have a 4k scan res loki for use in low sec (I really hate interceptors), even that thing didn't catch pods 100% of the time.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-04-12 19:03:57 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Pods instawarp, they don't NEED countermeasures to survive, their speed is enough. Even with a ****** internet connection spamming the "warp to" button frequently will get your pod into warp before you have even finished loading.

This.

I used to have a 4k scan res loki for use in low sec (I really hate interceptors), even that thing didn't catch pods 100% of the time.

WTB > that loki fit
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#18 - 2012-04-12 19:05:47 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Pods instawarp, they don't NEED countermeasures to survive, their speed is enough. Even with a ****** internet connection spamming the "warp to" button frequently will get your pod into warp before you have even finished loading.

Under many, probably most circumstances, you are probably right.

But, as MX pointed out:
If you don't have a decent internet connection, you are in a bubble, or you are being smartbombed, then you are not in a good position to survive a podding attempt.

Like any countermeasure, they gives no gaurantees, but it does improve your chances of survival.

And as Kusum Fawn pointed out, they can become clever weapons for those willing to sacrifice their ships to use them.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#19 - 2012-04-12 19:07:28 UTC
Chicken Pizza wrote:
I have never lost a pod to circumstances beyond my control.

DECOYS: No. It's already hard enough to lock a pod before it warps off, unless you're running some serious sensor booster shenanigans. This would just promote smartbombs more, and make them far more popular than they need to be. I'm already sick of smartbombing battleships on the gates. Let's not encourage them further.

EMP REBOOT: No. As stated before, this will just promote kamikaze pilots flying into enemy fleets just to jam everyone, which would be a far too easily exploitable mechanic.

MICRO JUMP: I'm assuming you've never tried to pod someone. This is an incredibly bad idea, as pods will just *poof* after the ship blows up, eliminating any potential risk for whatever implants he may have had. This is contradictory to the whole theme of pods being lock-able in the first place.

Then this won't affect you at all, and you won't gain or lose any kill mails because of it.
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#20 - 2012-04-12 19:08:37 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
And as Kusum Fawn pointed out, they can become clever weapons for those willing to sacrifice their ships to use them.


I wouldn't really call an Atron warping into an enemy fleet, blowing up, and jamming all of them a "sacrifice".
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