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Why is anyone using a Hulk over a Covetor.
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Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#21 - 2012-04-11 23:51:09 UTC
As a miner myself, I can honestly say most miners are stupid. There's nothing wrong with hulks at all. I could go on and on about how my 6 bilion isk jump freighter should be able to tank 12 tornados.

Fact of the matter is I've only ever been ganked once, and it was because I choose to mine somewhere other people go. Go to empty systems, mine to your heart's content. Even if you have to sell your minerals at reduced prices to get people with freighters to come get them, you'll still come out ahead because you'll be pulling in more isk/hour than a Covetor would 2 jumps from Jita.
Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-04-11 23:52:24 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
Aranakas wrote:
Sycho Pathic wrote:
The Hulk isn't 500% improvement over the Covetor so I see no need to spend the 500% extra for it.


I'm not even a bloody miner and I agree with this. Why is a mining ship more expensive than a battleship when it's not even capable of pulling in the same isk/hour (as running missions/incursions)? Isk/hour is a hulk's supposed purpose, while combat is a battleship's supposed purpose.


Same for the Rapier. Why is it so expensive, when it's neither capable of achieving the BS isk/hour levels when running missions/incursion nor is it capable of achieving Hulk isk/hour levels when mining?

Twisted


An incursion that would simulate fleet combat with the AI and require the use of interdictors to prevent your bounties from warping away sounds good to me.

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green
Shukuzen Kiraa
F4G Wild Weasel
#23 - 2012-04-12 00:08:16 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
The training needed for a Hulk only needs a few extra days after one has trained for a Covetor. People think of it as a major gain when they can get from a T1 ship into a T2 ship with such a short amount of training and it becomes one of the major incentives for doing it. The Hulk not only mines a little better, but it can be rigged and fitted to hold a significantly larger amount of ore then the Covetor. It means one can stay longer in the belt and also longer away from the keyboard.

And there it is.

There it ******* is.

Miners want to engage in riskless activity to grow their wallets while they are AFK.

This does not come down to personal playstyle choices. It comes down to laziness, greed, and risk aversion of sickening proportions.


Not all miners are the same. We don't all go afk and expect to make isk with no risk.
But the cost of the ship over the Covetor is ridiculous when you look at the difference in the amount it mines. Not to mention a cheap destroyer can gank a hulk in high sec with ease, 2 destroyers if the hulk is tanked. So someone comes along in a catalyst that cost them what? 1.5 - 2m isk and destroys a ship that is now 300m. Not saying the Hulk shouldn't be unkillable but that is seriously unbalanced.
What is the reasoning behind making the hulk so weak? It's the top mining ship you can train for and it can be killed by a player who has been training for under a week.
Whitehound
#24 - 2012-04-12 00:10:12 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
And there it is.

There it ******* is.

Miners want to engage in riskless activity to grow their wallets while they are AFK.

This does not come down to personal playstyle choices. It comes down to laziness, greed, and risk aversion of sickening proportions.
Ptraci wrote:
Yeah, being able to undock a ship is all you need to train for. And now let's hear miners comment on PvP ships.

Whatever funny opinion you have on the miners do you also need to admit that the Hulk with its 35 PG and the cost of currently 300m ISK is funnier than those who choose to fly it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#25 - 2012-04-12 00:12:03 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
And there it is.

There it ******* is.

Miners want to engage in riskless activity to grow their wallets while they are AFK.

This does not come down to personal playstyle choices. It comes down to laziness, greed, and risk aversion of sickening proportions.
Ptraci wrote:
Yeah, being able to undock a ship is all you need to train for. And now let's hear miners comment on PvP ships.

Whatever funny opinion you have on the miners do you also need to admit that the Hulk with its 35 PG and the cost of currently 300m ISK is funnier than those who choose to fly it.

Who is the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?
-Obi-wan Kenobi
A New Hope

You miners should take a cue from old Obi-wan.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Whitehound
#26 - 2012-04-12 00:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Darth Gustav wrote:
Who is the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?
-Obi-wan Kenobi
A New Hope

You miners should take a cue from old Obi-wan.

Whoa *********** (censored). I spat at my monitor that is how hard you have just made me laugh...... Lol

Dude, if anything then it is foolish to quote Star Wars Clone Wars wisdom on a forum.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
gfldex
#27 - 2012-04-12 00:20:57 UTC
A Covetor doesn't work. If you got maxed out skills you fill your cargo hold with one cycle of one laser. You will lose ore due to full cargo holds. That ain't much of a problem tho, because you don't got the capa to run 3 T2 strip miners anyways.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-04-12 00:25:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jon Taggart
It's interesting to see how this increased reliance on miners has shed some light on some potential issues present in the profession.

I imagine we'll be seeing additional ships/balances in the near future on some of these hulls.

I think so anyway Smile.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#29 - 2012-04-12 00:27:16 UTC
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Hulk gets 3% per level more than the covetor plus it can use 2 Mining laser upgrade II's as opposed to 1 T1.


WHAT??!?

You want to use slots for non-tank equipment on a mining barge?

Radical extermist you are Roll



No, I mine in a covetor and take the L on the ore. I am saying why it gets done at all.

And for the 25% less that I mine in ore I make up with intact armor plates.

Win/win.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Fish Hunter
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-04-12 00:53:54 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
If you put Damage Control II and Reinforced Bulkhead II on a Covetor then you have 11,586 EHP and about 90% the mining rate of a Hulk.

For something like a tenth the price? (Last time I looked, ship prices are all over the place.)

Plus the Covetor pays out semi-decent insurance.

WHY are people using Hulks?

They are next to worthless unless you only lose one for every, well, more than 1 billion ISK mined.


Because covetor has severely inferior cpu available it can only fit 1 mlu giving it 75% of the yield as a hulk
Aggressive Nutmeg
#31 - 2012-04-12 01:16:06 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Who is the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?
-Obi-wan Kenobi
A New Hope Star Wars

Fixed that for you.

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#32 - 2012-04-12 01:21:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Same reason you fly a Tangu for 800+m instead of a Drake for 60m or Nighthawk for 200m.

Tengu isn't 4 times better then a Nighthawk, is it?
Tengu isn't 1x times better then a Drake, is it?

Reson: you want the absolut best ignoring anythink else.
Old well known min/max theocraft game.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-04-12 01:34:17 UTC
^ 400ish - 500ish dps and less tank v. 900dps and way better perma boost tank isn't 1x times better? With less sig to boot?

**** me you got high standards.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#34 - 2012-04-12 01:37:38 UTC
I have an interesting suggestion. Why don't you whiny Hulk miners move out to nullsec? The mining there is much more profitable, you don't get harassed anywhere near as much, and you don't have total shitheels flying around being ********.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-04-12 01:40:42 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
I have an interesting suggestion. Why don't you whiny Hulk miners move out to nullsec? The mining there is much more profitable, you don't get harassed anywhere near as much, and you don't have total shitheels flying around being ********.


Because until recently they didnt need indie pilots to mine... You had drone poo/gun mining. What did they say 40% of minerals were from there! So instead you'd have people importing from high to null instead of the other way around.

Didn't make sense to mine... Well see if hulks get dusted off after drone change and meta 0 drop change.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#36 - 2012-04-12 01:41:49 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
I have an interesting suggestion. Why don't you whiny Hulk miners move out to nullsec? The mining there is much more profitable, you don't get harassed anywhere near as much, and you don't have total shitheels flying around being ********.


You are either the worst kind of troll or are playing on sisi.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#37 - 2012-04-12 01:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Kattshiro wrote:
^ 400ish - 500ish dps and less tank v. 900dps and way better perma boost tank isn't 1x times better? With less sig to boot?

**** me you got high standards.

Nice try.

Tengu HAM -> Nighthawk HAM -> Tengu HM -> Nighthawk HM

If you compare Tengu HAM v Nighthawk HM ... then yes, you get 500 DPS v 900 DPS.

Now try Tengu HAM v Nighthawk HAM .. 900 v 800 DPS.

Not that much anymore. For sure not 4 times as much ;).

PS: Using HM it's only 670 v 600 DPS.
+70 != 4 times as much

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Liam Mirren
#38 - 2012-04-12 01:57:47 UTC
Covetor with DC and survey scanner has 9.7k EHP and a yield of 1360
Hulk with DC and survey scanner has 21.9K EHP and a yield of 1730

That's more than 25% increase in yield while having more tank. Now compare that to people buying implants, faction BS and whatnot. They'd pay through their nose to get a 25+% increase in performance. There's your answer.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#39 - 2012-04-12 02:14:10 UTC
gfldex wrote:
A Covetor doesn't work. If you got maxed out skills you fill your cargo hold with one cycle of one laser. You will lose ore due to full cargo holds. That ain't much of a problem tho, because you don't got the capa to run 3 T2 strip miners anyways.


Because covetors dont have rig slots, orcas cant boost, and asteroids don't really exist.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-04-12 03:15:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kattshiro
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Kattshiro wrote:
^ 400ish - 500ish dps and less tank v. 900dps and way better perma boost tank isn't 1x times better? With less sig to boot?

**** me you got high standards.

Nice try.

Tengu HAM -> Nighthawk HAM -> Tengu HM -> Nighthawk HM

If you compare Tengu HAM v Nighthawk HM ... then yes, you get 500 DPS v 900 DPS.

Now try Tengu HAM v Nighthawk HAM .. 900 v 800 DPS.

Not that much anymore. For sure not 4 times as much ;).

PS: Using HM it's only 670 v 600 DPS.
+70 != 4 times as much


Tengu v drake... (not NH) didnt say what kind. (drone dps dont count) Also tank. Tengu is way better in all regards. In which case aside from cost would you rather... take a tengu or a drake. Probably going to go tengu in 99% of situations.

As to the the but miners are AFK == I hate them for it. You ever ice mined? WHY THE **** YOU WOULD SIT AND STARE AT THE SCREEN FOR 2 5+ MINUTE CYCLES FOR HOURS? 10 minutes of looking at ice? No one wants to do that for extended periods of time... all the time.

Dont hate the player hate the game... mechanics.

For some odd reason CCP really really really wants to avoid mining changes. I understand the game can't be 100% super intense fun 100% of the time, but lets face it mining isn't enjoyable to partake in unless you're doing something else at the same time. Like me I'm writing up papers or code or doing research. Even the CCP dev stated they like it because they can watch sports while being hungover... Meaning it's not a full attention kinda thing! Why do you need to pay 100% attention to mining unless you're in low sec or a WH. Hell deep in 0.0 of your own territory you can afk mine.

So people hate that players can afk mine...but who made it this way? And continues not to address it?