Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hurrr.....

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, and all the bricks may not be in my wall, so excse if this is a stupid idea, but it ocurred to me that EVE has the Stealth Bomber, which delivers bombs cloaked and is fragile and covert. So, I thought, if that's the B2 bomber of EVE, what about a B52? Hence, thoughtbubble, I wonder what kind of ship a non-cloaky bomber would be, and how feasible would it be in EVE?

Firstly, I'd say it would probably be cruiser or battlecruiser sized. I would prefer cruiser sized, which gives it enough maneuverability and a middling tank, enough to potentially make a bombing run and survive, but not enough to sit there in a stand-up brawl.

It would be able to fit a bomb launcher, and possibly a few defensive weapons. For instance, maybe 3 or 4 high slots, with one bomb, 2 turrets or missiles, and a utility slot for smartbomb, neut, etc.

Its ship trait would reduce the delay between being able to bomb by 20% per level; at level 5 you would merely have to ait 10s to reload your bomb before being able to fire it again. This nominally would give it a maximum of 1500DPS in perfect conditions - but remember that your enemy is never sitting still and the bomb will launch where your ship is pointing - the likelihood of being able to actually hit for full damage every 10s is pretty remote. You would also be primary.

It would get a 20% per level bomb damage bonus to the racial bomb type.

It would have the ability to fit at least 20 bombs in the cargo bay.

It would be fast, agile, low-ish signature, so you have the ability to avoid being pinned down, though, of course, this wouldn't be impossible in a rock-paper-scissors world. Remember, you will have to most likely fit nanos to the ship to make it a survivable class.

Finally, it should cost about the same as a SB hull and be tech 1. Crazy, i hear you say? Not so. CCP's tiercide concept has a role type of Bombardment. For cruiser class hulls, this would fit the role pretty well I would think.

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Jotnar (Giant) - Minmatar Strategic Bomber

Highslots: 3 (2 turret slots, 2 missile slots)
Midslots: 4
Lowslots: 4

Drone Bay: 25m
Bandwidth: 25mb/s

Shield HP base: 1950
Armour HP base: 1350
Hull HP base: 1450

Capacitor: 1400
Cap regen: +11.6GJ/s

Targeting
Max targets 5
Range 45km
Scan Res: 350mm
Sensor Str: 11

Speed: 325m/s
Align time: 5.05s
Signature: 95
Cargo: 500m3

Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus:
20% reduction in bomb launcher cooldown time per level
20% bonus to explosive bomb damage per level

Role Bonus:
99% reduction in CPU and Powergrid needs of bomb launchers

Powergrid:
Enough, potentially, to fit at least a MWD, 1 x T2 LSE, Invul, a bomb launcher, and 2 x T2 180mm AC's or 2 x Rapid Launchers.
- - - -

Wendigo - Caldari Strategic Bomber

Highslots: 4 ( 3 missile slots)
Midslots: 5
Lowslots: 2

Drone Bay: 25m
Bandwidth: 25mb/s

Shield HP base: 2150
Armour HP base: 1150
Hull HP base: 1350

Capacitor: 1300
Cap regen: +11.6GJ/s

Targeting
Max targets 5
Range 65km
Scan Res: 320mm
Sensor Str: 13

Speed: 315m/s
Align time: 5.35s
Signature: 105
Cargo: 500m3

Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus:
20% reduction in bomb launcher cooldown time per level
20% bonus to kinetic bomb damage per level

Role Bonus:
99% reduction in CPU and Powergrid needs of bomb launchers

- - - - -

And so on

The main points of contention will obviously be;
- the implied DPS may be wildly high. As said before, in a perfect situation you could achieve 1500DPS. But you would have to lock your target down, line up for a run with no cloak, release the bomb, attempt to warp out or align out, and reload...then reapproach. Your enemy, if he survives the first bomb (and all things greater than a MWDing frigate will survive) will be targeting you and attempting to kill you...so you'd be lucky to get two bombs off in a rom without having to leave the field.

- obviously this would be a nullsec-only ship. Without a cloak you would be very vulnerable to being bubbled on warp-in and hosed immediately. You could, also, roll fleets of these with titan bridging and attempt to carpet bomb capitals and so on...which I would think is very much fun!

- there would be concerns about "OMG people will roll gangs of these and bomb everything". Well, as shown by Goons, you only need 5 stealth bombers deployed properly and you can vape a whole fleet of sniper nagas. You can also, interestingly enough, end up vaping a whole fleet of SB's with one borked bomb, so there is a huge potential for friendly fire with these tools. I would like to see the discussion around this, it should prove interesting.

I did think about that, but...really, you want to create a ship people are afraid to lose?

While I don't like the idea of thoughtless welping of ships (eg, some RvB fights are just "rush in, swing a knife, die") people are already going to be fairly risk-averse anyway. Making a fragile, uncloaked bomb-tossing cruiser a Tech 3, with a hull cost of hundreds of millions, with a weapon system that lobs a slow-moving area effect weapon that your enemies can fly out of the blast zone thereof....yeah, that is really going to be a great way of adding a ship people will actually want to fly.

Besides, there's nothing particularly amazing about the concept presented; just a studier bomb delivery platform than an SB.

Edit:

Oh, and what other module would you want to launch bombs, aside from the....bomb launcher? Which currently can be fit....to a SB only. Are you really not grokking the idea here, that the module exists, we can entertain ideas of tossing it on new hulls?

Cause going into a fight should not be too easy. Going into a fight without any risk is just plain stupid. And with bombers they already pretty much on that point. If you add a bigger bomber to this it means that eventyaly there are just bombers in the battlefields. So adding risk to the game makes it more interesting.

Stategic Bombers were designed to bomb cities and enemy forces by using either conventional or nuclear munitions. Not sure how that translates in EVE. You can already fit AOE bombs on BS's.

Yes, you can fit area of effect smartbombs on your battleships. Mild distinction here is the damage projection or a launched bomb.

I am aware of what strategic bombing is in the circa 20th century militiary milieux. Strategic cruisers in the EVE milieux are the nametag appended to what would otherwise be known as Sleeper Alien Robot Hybrid Technology Modular OMGWTF Death Cruisers.

You can call it whatever you want. Heavy Bomber. Nonstealth Bomber. Cruiser Bomber. Suicide Bomber. Pony Bomber. Photo Bomber. I don't care.



I thought about multiple bombs, or tossing a bomb launcher or four on a battleship, but this would then turn everything into a kind of Nelsonian exercise of lining your ships up in formal formations, flying toward the enemy and hoping to high hell your bombs exploded before the enemy's. Kinda linke the fire ships vs the Spanish Armada. Not very survivable or dynamic.

My concept, sadly, revolves around the idea that people would have to fly their bomber versus set orbit at 20km and circle in dissy range waging a war of attrition.

I think the fact you'd be uncloaked (mainly...there's nothing stopping someone lurking with an improved cloak on these things) would neccessitate new tactics, to avoid the flak on the way in, deliver a crushing blow, and then escape (or not). The reason the hull would be cruiser sized is precisely because these ships would be fragile and you'd need them to be replaceable.



I agree with your philosophy that EVE combat should not be about welpfleets and thoughtless attrition, but, again, making this a module or subsystem to deploy on a T3 isn't really addressing your philosophy of making PVP a ball-clenching experience where you are afraid to die. You are just using escalating the ISK cost of a ship as an excuse to prevent its proliferation as opposed to other ships.

Secondly, you claim that SB's are already a risk-free combat platform. I take it you imply that this is a function of their cloaking ability. Sadly, my friend, the reality is far from this truth. The most T2 frigates killed are in fact bombers; so obviously a lot of people are losing bombers. A lot of people are of course losing to bombers, but that does not equate with bombers being overpowered.

You are also suggesting that, were this concept to get off the ground, it would somehow be just like a stealth bomber. I cannot see how you can be so badly confused.

Stealth bomber: weak, cloaky.
This concept: middling tank, not cloaky.

Finally, your logic doesn't stack up. CCP added bigger gunships to the game (tier 3 BC's) with amazing damage projection, in an era of alphafleets. They are hardly completely risk-free even though they cost as much as a sniper HAC, do more damage than a sniper HAC, and are easier to get into than a sniper HAC. EVE hasn't turned into snipers online despite the introduction of viable sniping platforms again; I doubt making an uncloaking bomber would turn it into bombers online.