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Electronic Attack Frigates - Broken Since 2009

Author
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#1 - 2012-04-06 13:01:20 UTC
I'll be short and sweet - these ships took a massive hit with the nano nerf and never recovered. Here's a laundry list of issues:


  • Their signature raddii are measured in the 50's. The Kitsune is even now larger then the Thrasher, a destroyer class ship.
  • There are six bonuses between four ships related to cap conservation. A ship class role bonus would allow four of these stale bonuses to be replaced with something more related to survival.
  • The T2 resists given to the class are similar to the T2 Force Recon cruisers' resists. As EAF can't cloak, they should have the higher resists of the Combat Recons.
  • The Hyena bonus of reduced signature size is a throwback to what interceptors used to have. It was changed for the interceptors because it no longer worked. Why does the Hyena still have it?


Could we please get these ships at long last looked at?
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#2 - 2012-04-06 13:03:47 UTC
Good post and it's being looked at from what I hear... for some years now?

In before people giving marginal examples why EAF's are all good.
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#3 - 2012-04-06 13:13:56 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I'll be short and sweet - these ships took a massive hit with the nano nerf and never recovered. Here's a laundry list of issues:


  • Their signature raddii are measured in the 50's. The Kitsune is even now larger then the Thrasher, a destroyer class ship.
  • There are six bonuses between four ships related to cap conservation. A ship class role bonus would allow four of these stale bonuses to be replaced with something more related to survival.
  • The T2 resists given to the class are similar to the T2 Force Recon cruisers' resists. As EAF can't cloak, they should have the higher resists of the Combat Recons.
  • The Hyena bonus of reduced signature size is a throwback to what interceptors used to have. It was changed for the interceptors because it no longer worked. Why does the Hyena still have it?


Could we please get these ships at long last looked at?


innit?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2012-04-06 13:30:07 UTC
Good list, looking forward to Inferno.

.

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#5 - 2012-04-06 13:40:06 UTC
Crellion wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I'll be short and sweet - these ships took a massive hit with the nano nerf and never recovered. Here's a laundry list of issues:


  • Their signature raddii are measured in the 50's. The Kitsune is even now larger then the Thrasher, a destroyer class ship.
  • There are six bonuses between four ships related to cap conservation. A ship class role bonus would allow four of these stale bonuses to be replaced with something more related to survival.
  • The T2 resists given to the class are similar to the T2 Force Recon cruisers' resists. As EAF can't cloak, they should have the higher resists of the Combat Recons.
  • The Hyena bonus of reduced signature size is a throwback to what interceptors used to have. It was changed for the interceptors because it no longer worked. Why does the Hyena still have it?


Could we please get these ships at long last looked at?


innit?


Question I can fly them, yes.
Saul Shardani
People of the Saiya
Silent Company
#6 - 2012-04-06 15:56:48 UTC
Just skilled up enough to use the Amarr EAF, looking forward to Inferno. Hope they make them useful again
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-04-06 16:02:19 UTC
It was mentioned in Ship Balancing session at Fanfest (saw it on Youtube) that EAFs will be looked at.
I would not expect them to be fixed quickly though, because the concept for EAF requires far more analysis, feedback and innovation then lets say rebalancing BCs or T1 cruisers/whatever.
Many months if not more than a year probably.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#8 - 2012-04-06 16:53:41 UTC
Good post. I trained EAF V on my frigate pilot some time ago, just praying that the day would come when they would make these ships less of a liability to fly. Still looking forward to it.

In the meantime, it's fun to kill Hyena's that think they can tackle my Rifter.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#9 - 2012-04-06 17:03:37 UTC
Keres and Hyena need looking at, while Sentinel and Kitsune just need minor tweaks, especially to survivability.

That said, Sentinel and Kitsune are awesome and I will TD/jam anyone who calls them a liability in a fleet.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#10 - 2012-04-06 18:02:03 UTC
Darthewok wrote:
It was mentioned in Ship Balancing session at Fanfest (saw it on Youtube) that EAFs will be looked at.
I would not expect them to be fixed quickly though, because the concept for EAF requires far more analysis, feedback and innovation then lets say rebalancing BCs or T1 cruisers/whatever.
Many months if not more than a year probably.

I'd give it maybe a month of time from a full time dev, tops.

It's complicated, but not hideously so if someone is paying full attention to it, and they can run quite a few scenarios in that kind of time.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

OfBalance
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-04-07 06:51:30 UTC
As a fellow optimist who spent weeks rocking EAF to V on four characters, I too would relish a long-needed buff to the ship class.

Of course, with tiericide on the horizon and the prospect of many more broad-stroke game changing nerfs/buffs therein, I don't see a lot of reason to gripe for it now. IMHO, let the post-inferno meta shake out a bit, see where the EAF might fit in, change their stats or various roles accordingly.

It would be way too easy, and true to CCP's old style, to simply bandaid buff only to see them re-broken when a bunch of newly viable t1 ships come into play.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2012-04-07 07:38:47 UTC
Loosely related: Soundwave mentioned in a recent interview by TenTonHammer that ships that use damps will be looked at, which includes the Keres.

.

Jastra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-04-07 07:57:17 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I'll be short and sweet - these ships took a massive hit with the nano nerf and never recovered. Here's a laundry list of issues:


  • Their signature raddii are measured in the 50's. The Kitsune is even now larger then the Thrasher, a destroyer class ship.
  • There are six bonuses between four ships related to cap conservation. A ship class role bonus would allow four of these stale bonuses to be replaced with something more related to survival.
  • The T2 resists given to the class are similar to the T2 Force Recon cruisers' resists. As EAF can't cloak, they should have the higher resists of the Combat Recons.
  • The Hyena bonus of reduced signature size is a throwback to what interceptors used to have. It was changed for the interceptors because it no longer worked. Why does the Hyena still have it?


Could we please get these ships at long last looked at?


Great example of a ship class that should be on the rebalance shortlist

Wyte Ragnarok
#14 - 2012-04-07 08:32:05 UTC
+1 good list. From what I remember (and stated above), sensor damp ships will be looked at (and possibly the module as a whole), and frigates are getting the first tiericide rebalancing (though this might mean T1's, I'm sure T2's will follow though).

Must admit, I've only flown the Sentinel and was a little disappointed in it. So I don't even want to imagine how poor the Keres and Hyena are.
Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-04-07 08:57:08 UTC
True. I've never even seen one is pvp combat
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#16 - 2012-04-07 10:03:41 UTC
The biggest problem of the EAF is survivability. It has not enough speed, not enough range, not enough tank, too much signature radius, too big of a pricetag, inconsistent role-bonus between races AND it's called primary 90% of the time.

Fix a few of those and CCP might actually make a decent ship out of it. The best role for EAF is that of EW force-multiplier for fast roaming gangs, but as it stands now even T1 frigates have a better chance at surviving fights.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-04-07 18:01:34 UTC
as Petrus said, kitsune and sentinel only need some surivability-related tweaks here and there. they actually work relatively well, if not for the extremely low survivability expectancy they have.

keres and hyena however...


keres as a damp platform is no better than a maulus. heck the maulus actually has a damage bonus so it can shoot back, more cpu and costs 1/100th of it, and as a tackler, why going for it when you have the ares?

hyena as a painting platform is too much of low-level job for such an expensive ship (vigil can do it with the same efficiency and, again, 1/100th of the cost), and as a long range web platform it will die as soon as anything bigger than a pod sneezes at it. also nano nerf killed whatever usability that the ship had as a fast long-range webbing frigate.

and to kick it down even further, you stack on top of them the same issues that plague both the kitsune and the sentinel.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#18 - 2012-04-07 19:18:32 UTC
i have to say the keres is one of the best looking ships ingame it makes me a very sad panda to know its pretty useless outside of ship spinning...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#19 - 2012-04-08 20:25:05 UTC
The Sentinel and Keres can be fun and I say that as a solo frigate pilot but its easily arguable they are in need of some sort of update.

I appreciate they are really support ships and dont expect their dps to be boosted particularly but my main issues are sig radius and agility.

As far as the sentinel goes. I played around with it a few months back and did reasonably well, only dying to a blob while killing some competent ships and a failfit battleship...

my loss http://tinyurl.com/d7cyv8z

my kills http://tinyurl.com/bnfn684

I know griefwatch isnt the best but it is easy to search for ship specific stats.

You may also question the fit but I have flown this ship plenty and trust me it is the most effective for what I do :P

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)

Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
#20 - 2012-04-08 23:07:04 UTC
eaf frigats should suppose to be support ships. would be awesome if they just removed all turret / missile slots and buff their speed, give them battleship cap recharge rate and buff fittings / layout.


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