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Overpowered

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Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#1 - 2011-09-27 10:14:24 UTC
What is you "overpowered" criteria? How do you judge that a ship or module or a combination thereof is "overpowered" ?

How do you make the fine line between "powerful"/"useful" and "overpowered"?

What ships/modules you think are currently overpowered and why?

(And, please, let's not discuss supercapitals in this thread).

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-09-27 10:15:41 UTC
Super carriers are not overpowered, and neither are titans.

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#3 - 2011-09-27 10:18:37 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Super carriers are not overpowered, and neither are titans.


OK, now that we have this covered, let's move to others. Blink

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-09-27 10:19:43 UTC
A single frigate hull which makes assault ships and interceptors redundant and destroys an entire corner of gameplay.

Former member of CSM6.
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-09-27 10:20:56 UTC
An entire faction becoming redundant because ships in the line come with severe fitting issues across the board and a set of weapons which make no sense and haven't done for years.

Former member of CSM6.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-09-27 10:23:49 UTC
Scorch

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#7 - 2011-09-27 10:33:12 UTC
FOTM defines what is overpowered, in any system that is not 100% balanced.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Chuc Morris
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-09-27 10:46:58 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
What is you "overpowered" criteria? How do you judge that a ship or module or a combination thereof is "overpowered" ?

How do you make the fine line between "powerful"/"useful" and "overpowered"?

What ships/modules you think are currently overpowered and why?

(And, please, let's not discuss supercapitals in this thread).



When I can 100AB fit my Tengu while I'm mostly industrial skilled, some meh faction mods:

*over 67K EHP (has you can see I'm very far from having all lvl5)
*shoot/kill stuff at over 100km and never misses -T2 launchers
*speed tank at +1800m/S and over 2400 OH
*small T2 shield booster just in case
*cap stable fit at 40% everything running

I CAN PVE AND PVP IN THIS FIT (if I wanted to with this char of course), solo/gang/fleet with this

On the other side my triple trimarked Proteus with another char having a LOT MORE TANKING/ENERGY/GUNNERY skills than this toon (gunnery almost perfect, some 23D skills that can wait), can:

*CAP OUT just by shooting
*get out of cap charges faster than it can kill something else than retrievers, when it does it's time to go back to station get more ammo and cap charges (I understand opportunists because it's the perfect ship for them, backstabber stuff and gtfo)
*Can't engage anything from far distances than 20km with the ridiculous long range blaster T2 ammo and does crap dmg at this distance
*kitted at 24km with faction point he dies without being able to shoot a single round or do whatever (and slowly,ubber tank for sure)
*Can't do decent dmg out of it's ridiculous blaster optimal distance (around 4km with dedicated sub and nothing really exciting)
*Drone sub is so ridiculous the only drones I have with are 2 set of lights to pop other's drones and EC600 Vespas
*BUFFER tank or maybe with small faction repairer just for the fun of cap out even faster, consume cap charges even faster and still die miserably to any smart pilot
*MWD ON and not shooting caps out in less than one minute
and it's mostly Faction fitted

I can't decently pvp with this ship solo, will not be accepted in fleets for everything else than maybe links or logis guard, in small gang is just THE loot pinata hard to kill nothing really dangerous.

PVE? -lots of smiles? "you have cruiser at 5 right? train logis and use the oneiros you'll be more useful"

This is why I feel overpowered with my tengu, and soon enough the proteus will be changed for another tengu.
Sebero Sinak
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-09-27 10:55:35 UTC
@Chuck Morris

When you give specifics like that ....do you ever just want to shake your head and say "jesus i wish CCP would sell Eve to someone who gives a ****."
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#10 - 2011-09-27 10:57:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
When the only way to counter something is by bringing the same thing in equal or greater numbers.

ex. The only way to counter a supercap blob is to bring more supers. And by blob I mean 50+ not just 4-5 supers.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-09-27 10:59:05 UTC
Please don't use the term 'FOTM' in EVE Online. Something isn't 'FOTM' if it started being used over 2 years ago and continues to be used today. FOTM doesn't exist in EVE because EVE is an unbalanced and subsequently bad game.

Former member of CSM6.
Chuc Morris
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-09-27 10:59:49 UTC
Sebero Sinak wrote:
@Chuck Morris

When you give specifics like that ....do you ever just want to shake your head and say "jesus i wish CCP would sell Eve to someone who gives a ****."



Noes, I just ask my self how the same smart people who made this incredible game became so dumb they can't even see this.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#13 - 2011-09-27 11:01:12 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
When the only way to counter something is by bringing the same thing in equal or greater numbers.
Pretty much.
Captain Virgo
GDTD
#14 - 2011-09-27 11:03:31 UTC
quote=Chuc Morris]
Karim alRashid wrote:
What is you "overpowered" criteria? How do you judge that a ship or module or a combination thereof is "overpowered" ?

How do you make the fine line between "powerful"/"useful" and "overpowered"?

What ships/modules you think are currently overpowered and why?

(And, please, let's not discuss supercapitals in this thread).



When I can 100AB fit my Tengu while I'm mostly industrial skilled, some meh faction mods:

*over 67K EHP (has you can see I'm very far from having all lvl5)
*shoot/kill stuff at over 100km and never misses -T2 launchers
*speed tank at +1800m/S and over 2400 OH
*small T2 shield booster just in case
*cap stable fit at 40% everything running

I CAN PVE AND PVP IN THIS FIT (if I wanted to with this char of course), solo/gang/fleet with this

On the other side my triple trimarked Proteus with another char having a LOT MORE TANKING/ENERGY/GUNNERY skills than this toon (gunnery almost perfect, some 23D skills that can wait), can:

*CAP OUT just by shooting
*get out of cap charges faster than it can kill something else than retrievers, when it does it's time to go back to station get more ammo and cap charges (I understand opportunists because it's the perfect ship for them, backstabber stuff and gtfo)
*Can't engage anything from far distances than 20km with the ridiculous long range blaster T2 ammo and does crap dmg at this distance
*kitted at 24km with faction point he dies without being able to shoot a single round or do whatever (and slowly,ubber tank for sure)
*Can't do decent dmg out of it's ridiculous blaster optimal distance (around 4km with dedicated sub and nothing really exciting)
*Drone sub is so ridiculous the only drones I have with are 2 set of lights to pop other's drones and EC600 Vespas
*BUFFER tank or maybe with small faction repairer just for the fun of cap out even faster, consume cap charges even faster and still die miserably to any smart pilot
*MWD ON and not shooting caps out in less than one minute
and it's mostly Faction fitted

I can't decently pvp with this ship solo, will not be accepted in fleets for everything else than maybe links or logis guard, in small gang is just THE loot pinata hard to kill nothing really dangerous.

PVE? -lots of smiles? "you have cruiser at 5 right? train logis and use the oneiros you'll be more useful"

This is why I feel overpowered with my tengu, and soon enough the proteus will be changed for another tengu.[/quote]




Amen I keep waiting for CCP to make a special group of slots just for cap recharges when flying Gallente.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#15 - 2011-09-27 11:12:11 UTC
When one out of a range of what should be equivalent options, one stands out so far from the rest that there is no competition, that option is "overpowered".

Examples include a T1 pirate frigate which renders interceptors and assault ships irrelevant, one particular hull & fitting which is becoming quite popular for running missions due to its near invulnerability, and a class of hull that can be used for logistics and DPS at the same time with no sacrifice made in either capacity.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
The Offerer
Doomheim
#16 - 2011-09-27 11:13:15 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
What is you "overpowered" criteria? How do you judge that a ship or module or a combination thereof is "overpowered" ?

How do you make the fine line between "powerful"/"useful" and "overpowered"?

What ships/modules you think are currently overpowered and why?

(And, please, let's not discuss supercapitals in this thread).


#1) Something is overpowered when it performs better than any other thing available to do the same task, effectively making the whole class(es) of ships/modules obsolete.

#2) It is also overpowered when it can be used outside of the intended combat tactics as an "I Win" button and performs equally well against the majority of other setups.

#3) A line between "powerful" and "overpowered" is drawn between "being able to use other ships/tactics against the powerful setup with success" and "having to use the same setups just with more numbers involved to beat the overpowered setup".

Supercapitals - why: see #2 and #3.
Dramiels- why: see #1.

Let's not discuss supercapitals? Why not? They are the biggest problem in the game currently.
Gregor Palter
#17 - 2011-09-27 11:13:27 UTC
Overpowered means that, if you look at it objectively, it's the only real viable choice for a given situation to a point where it's simply illogical to bring another comparable ship. The result is that a lot of people will start using it, therefore if something is overused it's probably overpowered. See Supercaps, Angel ships, Falcon, Minmatar in general, Pulse+scorch. There have always been thing that were OP; cruise kestrels, nano age (all iterations), nos domi with single multispec ECM, the list goes on.

I ofcourse realise that from a DEV point of view you WANT imbalance and want it shifted around every few years or so as that makes people train for new stuff. But imbalance is bad, it's just bad design and bad "maintenance" to not swiftly take care of something that for whatever reason all of a sudden starts to be overused. That doesn't mean that everything should be the exact same, that'd be very boring but comparable ships should at least be viable and not be a "lulz dis sux" choice.

The balance cycle is ofcourse longer in EVE because of the player driven market and all that; you can't just swiftly change stuff the whole time but there's just no excuse for it taking so long to realise that Angel ships are top dog, gallente is fcked and supercaps are ********.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

Chuc Morris
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-09-27 11:18:08 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
When the only way to counter something is by bringing the same thing in equal or greater numbers.


Same ships = pilot's skill difference

PLUS

A whole organisation and effort to have more than the neighbour. So if you can't understand this then the "social" aspect of the game is missing somewhere at alliances level.

What is unbalanced is not those numbers, it's more like this:

frig: I'll pass I hate them all, from T1 to T2 they're just throw isk away or noob stuff

cruiser: can have decent dps/navigation with around 30/35k EHP before fleet bonus

destroyer: useless other than minmatar one, not using this crap stuff neither

BC: excellent dps (other than gallente) 65 to 90K EHP before fleet bonus

BS: ridiculous dps, navigation ORCA style if not nano'd and buffer shield tanked, 125 +/- before fleet bonus

Capitals/ Supers/ Titans: put whatever you want, forum is filled with comments on those and specially about the ridiculous amounts of EHP and Warfare immune from guys knowing sure more than I'll ever do on this matter since I'm not willing to waste my time training for those, never liked those bot's insta killing you with scripts and will never like such overpowered ships or fly them, there are enough tards to do it.
Gregor Palter
#19 - 2011-09-27 11:20:13 UTC
Chuc Morris wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
When the only way to counter something is by bringing the same thing in equal or greater numbers.


Same ships = pilot's skill difference

PLUS

A whole organisation and effort to have more than the neighbour. So if you can't understand this then the "social" aspect of the game is missing somewhere at alliances level.

What is unbalanced is not those numbers, it's more like this:

frig: I'll pass I hate them all, from T1 to T2 they're just throw isk away or noob stuff

cruiser: can have decent dps/navigation with around 30/35k EHP before fleet bonus

destroyer: useless other than minmatar one, not using this crap stuff neither

BC: excellent dps (other than gallente) 65 to 90K EHP before fleet bonus

BS: ridiculous dps, navigation ORCA style if not nano'd and buffer shield tanked, 125 +/- before fleet bonus

Capitals/ Supers/ Titans: put whatever you want, forum is filled with comments on those and specially about the ridiculous amounts of EHP and Warfare immune from guys knowing sure more than I'll ever do on this matter since I'm not willing to waste my time training for those, never liked those bot's insta killing you with scripts and will never like such overpowered ships or fly them, there are enough tards to do it.



What the **** are you talking about.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#20 - 2011-09-27 11:25:09 UTC
I was talking about being overpowered not unbalanced.

When THE ONLY WAY TO COUNTER something is to bring the more of the same it is OP. Prime example was back when Nanos where OP, there was no way to counter a nano fleet without bringing similar or larger nano fleet. It was pointless to fly anything else. It makes almost every other fleet setup or ship type useless.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
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