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While removing ship tiers....
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Perihelion Olenard
#1 - 2012-04-06 19:28:35 UTC
Don't forget to adjust the hitpoints of each ship as well, including the faction ships. I noticed that the megathron navy issue has more HP than the dominix navy issue and I'd hate to see CCP forget about that.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-04-06 19:34:03 UTC
they've stated that there's going to be extensive balancing with the removal of tiers. I'm guessing they wouldn't pass over that one.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#3 - 2012-04-06 19:39:38 UTC
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Don't forget to adjust the hitpoints of each ship as well, including the faction ships. I noticed that the megathron navy issue has more HP than the dominix navy issue and I'd hate to see CCP forget about that.

Because every ship should have the same hit poi--oh wait, no they shouldn't. A Navy Thron and a Navy Domi shouldn't be identical. They're two very different ships with different design principles.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Perihelion Olenard
#4 - 2012-04-06 22:26:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Perihelion Olenard
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Don't forget to adjust the hitpoints of each ship as well, including the faction ships. I noticed that the megathron navy issue has more HP than the dominix navy issue and I'd hate to see CCP forget about that.

Because every ship should have the same hit poi--oh wait, no they shouldn't. A Navy Thron and a Navy Domi shouldn't be identical. They're two very different ships with different design principles.


Ship HPs come from the tier system. As this is going away there shouldn't be thousands of HPs difference. Sure, there can be some differences, but not that much. A couple thousand may not seem like much a difference just by looking at the ship attributes, but it becomes much larger after resistances and other bonuses. I said nothing about making the two ships identical. In fact, I like variety.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2012-04-06 22:40:20 UTC
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Don't forget to adjust the hitpoints of each ship as well, including the faction ships. I noticed that the megathron navy issue has more HP than the dominix navy issue and I'd hate to see CCP forget about that.

Because every ship should have the same hit poi--oh wait, no they shouldn't. A Navy Thron and a Navy Domi shouldn't be identical. They're two very different ships with different design principles.


Ship HPs come from the tier system. As this is going away there shouldn't be thousands of HPs difference. Sure, there can be some differences, but not that much. A couple thousand may not seem like much a difference just by looking at the ship attributes, but it becomes much larger after resistances and other bonuses. I said nothing about making the two ships identical. In fact, I like variety.



They're looking at roles instead of tiers, right?

Megas and domis have very different roles. One's a drone boat, one's...not.

If you don't want things to be identical and you like variety, why would you want them to have identical HP?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-04-06 22:50:13 UTC
why do i get the feeling that this ship balancing crap that they're gonna do will ruin missiles until the finally decide to balance missiles?
Perihelion Olenard
#7 - 2012-04-06 22:51:10 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:

They're looking at roles instead of tiers, right?

Megas and domis have very different roles. One's a drone boat, one's...not.

If you don't want things to be identical and you like variety, why would you want them to have identical HP?

Their base hitpoints is meaningless for the role they fill. What's the point of one having more than the other if it's no longer the next step up? Again, it comes from the tier system. And again, as I said already, I said nothing about them needing to have identical HP. My original post said absolutely nothing about it and didn't even use the word "identical". Quit posting here if you're going to keep saying I want the ships to be identical, have identical attributes or even hitpoints. Otherwise I'll just start reporting you for trolling.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-04-06 22:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

They're looking at roles instead of tiers, right?

Megas and domis have very different roles. One's a drone boat, one's...not.

If you don't want things to be identical and you like variety, why would you want them to have identical HP?

Their base hitpoints is meaningless for the role they fill. What's the point of one having more than the other if it's no longer the next step up? Again, it comes from the tier system. And again, as I said already, I said nothing about them needing to have identical HP. My original post said absolutely nothing about it and didn't even use the word "identical". Quit posting here if you're going to keep saying I want the ships to be identical, have identical attributes or even hitpoints. Otherwise I'll just start reporting you for trolling.


I think they're gonna want them each balanced differently...one with be faster, one have more hp, one have more dps.

If you start evening out all their stats, even hp, then you basically will end up having the same ship with a different skin
Perihelion Olenard
#9 - 2012-04-06 23:00:35 UTC
I don't understand what it is with you people. The only thing I mentioned was their base HP which is affected by the tier system. Everyone now thinks I randomly want everything with both ships to be the same.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2012-04-06 23:47:56 UTC
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
I don't understand what it is with you people. The only thing I mentioned was their base HP which is affected by the tier system. Everyone now thinks I randomly want everything with both ships to be the same.



You keep saying you want the base HP to be the same. They are two completely different ships, that do two different things, in different ways. Why, exactly, should their base HP be identical?

Oh, yeah, and reporting everyone who doesn't agree with you as a troll is really going to help, isn't it. Roll
Perihelion Olenard
#11 - 2012-04-06 23:56:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Perihelion Olenard
Danika Princip wrote:
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
I don't understand what it is with you people. The only thing I mentioned was their base HP which is affected by the tier system. Everyone now thinks I randomly want everything with both ships to be the same.



You keep saying you want the base HP to be the same. They are two completely different ships, that do two different things, in different ways. Why, exactly, should their base HP be identical?

Oh, yeah, and reporting everyone who doesn't agree with you as a troll is really going to help, isn't it. Roll


I don't know what the hell your people's problem is, but I'm tired of it. How many damn times must I say that I never said things have to be identical? I didn't even mention anything about the roles these ships will fill and I never mentioned that they have to do the same thing. I'm done posting here as you people cannot read.

Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Don't forget to adjust the hitpoints of each ship as well, including the faction ships. I noticed that the megathron navy issue has more HP than the dominix navy issue and I'd hate to see CCP forget about that.

Where the hell did I say that everything must be the same? Where did I even say that the HP must be identical?
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#12 - 2012-04-07 00:27:52 UTC
The Megathron is actually physically larger and heavier than the Dominix, therefore the Mega should have more HP for the sake of realism, unless you want to change the mass of every ship so that it's the same.

wumbo
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-04-07 01:18:51 UTC
Prepare for assimilation.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#14 - 2012-04-07 01:26:27 UTC
All I want out of ship balancing is a T1 amarr cruiser that is actually worth flying for something other than bait.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#15 - 2012-04-09 13:58:19 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
I don't understand what it is with you people. The only thing I mentioned was their base HP which is affected by the tier system. Everyone now thinks I randomly want everything with both ships to be the same.


Without the tier system, you end up having to build each ship according to its role alone. A tanky brawler is going to be slow and tough. A kiter is going to be nimble and have low hp. You're advocating renorming their HP "because the tier system is going away" with no consideration for what they actually *DO*.

Besides all that, you're forgetting that a lot more affects the damage you take: HP, resists, sig radius and speed are the major factors. And abilities have to factor in as well...ECM and logi ships are such significant force multipliers that if you gave them the same defensive stats as a brawler it would just get stupid.

I don't think you're trying to make them identical. I think you're taking an overly-simplistic look at a single variable that would have a greater impact than you seem to realize.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#16 - 2012-04-09 14:03:29 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
I don't know what the hell your people's problem is, but I'm tired of it. How many damn times must I say that I never said things have to be identical? I didn't even mention anything about the roles these ships will fill and I never mentioned that they have to do the same thing. I'm done posting here as you people cannot read.

We can read just fine.

Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Their base hitpoints is meaningless for the role they fill.

That tells me that you lack a fundamental understanding of game balance. The rest of your posting stems from that hugely flawed reasoning.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.