EVE General Discussion

Thank you for explaining that. This is exactly what I'm saying and I wish people would stop trying to exaggerate it and flip out arguing a completely different extremist point. I'm just saying that logically the system seems awkward and outdated and probably needs to be re-worked in some way that allows amarr ships to not HAVE to have one of the two ship bonuses be a cap reduction to lasers just to be able to use their racial weapon. This would allow the devs more flexibility with ship design on amarr with two ship bonuses to mix and match like the other races have rather than just one to distinguish each ship from one another.

Confirming hybrids need to be finished and the missile system requires some loving way before lasers.

confirming I need to win the lottery, and world hunger needs to be fixed, oh and I'd like some pancakes too which all means no talking about amarr ship bonuses until then!

Seriously guys, do you just post in every single thread completely unrelated BS for the hell of it. So we can't talk about ship bonuses on amarr ships because only one topic can be on the entire forum at any given time?

World Hunger to hit a massive epidemic in 2030. This followes the economic collasped caused by trying to solve world hunger.

The more I read your responses, the more I feel that you are talking about something you have no idea about. Scorch is an awesome part of lasers just as Barrage is an awesome part of autocannons. It is perfectly in line.

Just because a Hurricane appears to do more turret damage in EFT than a Harbinger doesn't mean it actually does more damage. With plain close range ammo (multifreq/emp), the Harbinger outdoes the Hurricane on the range of 4 km - 12 km, while having a tougher tank, and better drones. The Harbinger's optimal range is 7.5 km. With Scorch/Barrage, the Harbinger outdoes the Hurricane at all ranges over 5 km. Its optimal is 22.5 km. Such is the case with all laser boats compared to other turrets: when laser boats stick to their optimal range, regardless of the ammo in use, they will outdamage other weapon systems most of the time. The difficulty comes in not letting the enemy get at point blank and under your guns.

If the cap bonus were replaced with a tracking bonus (or other direct combat bonus), that would:

1. Make cap mods required on all laser ships that get into extended fights. Having to sacrifice a slot to make lasers work would cause even more whining than having to sacrifice a bonus to make them work does.
2. Turn lasers into a general purpose win-weapon. We don't need that.

Additionally, if point (a) were eliminated by making lasers more cap-friendly, every ship of other races that doesn't get a damage/tracking bonus to its own weapon system would default to lasers -- the way some of them default to autocannons now.

Each weapon system has one critical fault that makes them be un-optimal for use on just any ship. The specific race of ships works to remedy that:

• Autocannons have cripplingly low DPS, and Minmatar ships rectify that with damage bonuses.
• Artillery has very poor optimal range and tracking, and some Minmatar ships rectify that.
• Blasters have very poor range, and tracking for that range. Gallente ships give falloff or tracking bonuses to fix that.
• Railguns have mediocre range, and Caldari fix that with a spectacular range bonus (10%!).
• Lasers use all of the cap in existence, and Amarr fix that with cap usage bonus.

Just because a ship gets a damage bonus doesn't make it better, and just becuase it has a higher DPS number doesn't mean it actually does more damage. The sooner EFT warriors can get that through their thick skulls, the sooner we can have more glorious flashlights in space, and fewer autocannons everywhere.

You've never pre-planned or analyzed a fit for its advantages or disadvantages... so there's that cleared up. You are probably not qualified to talk about the relative balance of ships and their bonuses.



Okay, so just to your point, allow me to repeat myself:


Every weapon system has a disadvantage. Lasers' disadvantage is cap use. Amarr ships fix that.

Deal with it.

I think that's why the Cap Recharge bonus should be considered.

Lasers, aside from cap use, are a superior weapons system compared to the others.

A completely unrelated bonus could easily make Amarr ships over powered.

A cap recharge bonus leaves laser use the way it is, but promotes the use of alternative tactics. One of which being to make active tanking in PVP (something CCP has been trying to encourage and make viable) a serious option for PVP. It would also make a wider variety of Amarr boats able to seriously consider using Nuets than currently do. It would encourage a certain higher degree of weapons and tactics variety without losing the Amarr flavor or over powering them.

To clarify, the current Reduced Cap use bonus only helps Amarr use lasers... while a Cap Recharge bonus achieves the same result and also benefits active tanking (dual rep) and neut use.

Helpful without being overpowered.

Also i'm not sure weapons should be balanced around an ammo type t2 none the less in which everyone does not have access to due to skilling. Rather ammo should be balanced around the weapons system. I see a lot of people say lasers are fine "because they have scorch."

That's all well and dandy, but what other systems do you ever see that argument? AC's aren't good just due to Barrage or RF EMP... Heavy missiles aren't good because of their t2 ammo etc.

Just because one ammo type is "WTF amazing" doesn't mean systems (in this cases bonuses) shouldnt be evaluated.

Amarr ships aren't balanced? hmm didn't know.

I don't need years of experience to know that 2 ship bonuses is better than 1. And that with a combination of two you have more design elements to play with when developing and distinguishing ships. I have this thing called simple logic and the ability to do first grade math.

Every weapon system has downsides, but only amarr ships racial weapon is completely crippled by not dedicating one of their two ship bonuses to fixing an issue without actually adding a benefit.

I'm not arguing amarr needs a buff, or needs more damage, or that one little number somewhere needs changed. It's an idea, not a specific number somewhere I'm referring to. And that idea is that the devs are going to have trouble making amarr ship designs unique or role defined when they only ever have one single ship bonus opposed to the two that they can mix and match for other races. The capacitor bonus on amarr ships is a lame way to fix a not so great design.

A more creative, logical, and effective way of balancing lasers other than making one poor design decision to fix another poor design decision.

right now if you're working on development at CCP for amarr ships here are your options because one ALWAYS has to be cap on lasers otherwise you just can't use lasers. And even then it doesn't encourage lasers.
-the ship with the damage bonus
-the ship with the repair bonus
-the ship with the range bonus.

That's boring and doesn't allow for much creative design, or expansion into the ship line, which is one of the contributing factors to so many ships that never get flown.

Where as with other races you have more to play with to come up with unique concepts or create ships that aren't black and white better or worse than each other but that fill different roles.
- the ship with speed bonus and tracking bonus for hit and run
- the ship with repair bonus and range bonus for a slow ship of the line feel
- the ship with drone damage and targeting range bonus

all of these define very unique roles and allow more creative leeway.


That's my point, not this crap some of you are getting bogged down because you like everything on the forums to be "buff this, nerf that" arguments.