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The Carebear Stigma: A Question

First post
Seraph Cruoris
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-27 03:29:55 UTC
I'm pretty new to EVE (Employment history aside; this account has seen a good amount of downtime) so my question is due to curiosity and maybe a little more time with the game I could probably later understand why people think this way....but here goes...

what is with the carebear stigma? i could be wrong but from my understanding the majority of the EVE economy is player driven, wouldn't you technically need these 'carebears' to keep the economy afloat. I understand they're not people you want in PvP or those defending your miners (who also garner the stigma).

I was just wondering really and was hoping to see what the opinions are.
The Apostle
#2 - 2011-09-27 03:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
majority of the EVE economy is player driven, wouldn't you technically need these 'carebears' to keep the economy afloat. I understand they're not people you want in PvP or those defending your miners (who also garner the stigma).

I was just wondering really and was hoping to see what the opinions are.

Easily answered. The military.

For every frontline troop there are (best guess) 10 "rear-echelon" soldiers.

No rear-echelon soldier ever needs to be "brave" "daring" or "courageous". Thus they are not "fighters" but (read) cowardly individuals unable or unwilling to fight. (That's perception, not fact)

Thus they are treated with contempt by the "leets" who, if my hypothesis is correct, aren't "leet" at all.

Take no notice. Genuinely and truly brave/courageous people are usually the first to acknowledge that the people around them are what makes them great.

Go 'Bears... Lol

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]

Kaede Kimura
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-09-27 03:36:50 UTC
It just comes from a simple fact that people feel that anyone can PvE (melt rocks, grind missions), but PvP is where one can really prove their skill. It also depends on how you define carebear, would station traders be included? Playing on the market can be considered as a form of pvp in EVE.
Oneida Inc.
#4 - 2011-09-27 03:46:24 UTC
Pay no mind, they are just another form of assault they throw at the only people they can kill since they usually aren't fit for battle.
Seraph Cruoris
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-09-27 03:47:12 UTC
Kaede Kimura wrote:
It just comes from a simple fact that people feel that anyone can PvE (melt rocks, grind missions)...

while i agree with that to a degree, we cant all PvP, otherwise the economy goes to hell and we have nothing to buy (unless CCP starts making it NPC driven).

as for the question of traders, that really just opens a can of worms in terms of the various interpretations one can put out: one can argue that mining is PvP as you're trying to be the best miner of all miners with the biggest haul and the biggest infrastructure available to you (assuming you have your own)....or i can argue that I'm PvP-ing to get the most dog tags amongst all mission runners....

Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-09-27 03:56:33 UTC
people who live in low or nullsec or sometimes wormhole think that PVP is all there is to eve. they then proceed to try and convince, harass, or anything else that is an annoyance to anything that isnt pvp..

the tl;dr is, there are many pvpidiots who think their castle in the sandbox is best and the only way eve should be played.
Gregor Palter
#7 - 2011-09-27 04:06:54 UTC
it depends how you define the term carebear. If you explain it as "people who do non-combat pvp" then I agree with most in this thread about how silly it is, and just to ignore the idiot who use it.

To me a carebear is someone who simply does not acknowledge the fact that this is a PVP game and that, sooner or later, it might knock on his door. Who will flail his arms blaming others for his own lack of effort and understanding. Someone who loses a hauler to a suicide is not necessarily a carebear, he just couldn't be bothered. Someone who starts whining about how unfair it is and how it is impossible to not get suicided blahblahblah, THAT is a carebear.

I realise that this is a very limited view and probably not how the majority sees it.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

#8 - 2011-09-27 04:27:19 UTC
Generally speaking, carebears only engage in PvE content and tend to actively avoid any kind of PvP activity, such as direct ship combat, trading, market manipulations, politics, spying or infiltrating corporations, scamming, etc..

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Sebero Sinak
#9 - 2011-09-27 04:45:32 UTC
Don't worry about a label, if you get to see the cesspool that 0.0 and pvp'er is you'll just think that those who do it need professional help.
Probably the best enjoyment in Eve is working in a corp to do something like set up a wormhole pos and build stuff. You'll be a carebear but you'll grow small claws. - Keep the wormhole thingy quiet thou because it's the last refuge of truely good gameplay.
Sebero Sinak
#10 - 2011-09-27 04:45:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sebero Sinak
dbl button
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-09-27 04:56:17 UTC
This issue separates the boys from men. Having said that, I am a boy and proud of it.

Any colour you like.

Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-09-27 04:56:23 UTC
This issue separates the boys from men. Having said that, I am a boy and proud of it.

Any colour you like.

Riggs Droput
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-09-27 04:58:49 UTC
I am not going to call anyone a carebear if they just run missions, as I have run missions many time. But if I were to gank said carebear and he begins to wine, complain and petition a GM i will taunt them about their weak ways and tell them that WOW >>>>>

We all have to Isk up some how. People could call ratters or plex'rs carebears as well. Same with WH dwellers, to me they are all just isk'n up.

TLDR : If you actively avoid PVP and complain when your die to another player your a bear.


I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#14 - 2011-09-27 05:02:57 UTC
I'm a carebear - I do not actively participate in PvP.
That does not stop me going into low and null sec for exploration.
Recently I dove into a small fleet battle to save the Sov belonging to a respected and well-known individual.
Being a carebear is something you can wear with pride - you play the game the way you want to play it, not the way others wish to dictate to you.

I have seen PvP'ers go at each other, only to be friends and join the same Corp soon after. In other words, PvP'ers end-up having fewer and fewer PvP'ers to pew-pew because they either join the same Corp, or their Corp becomes a member of the same Alliance. Those PvP'ers are the one's who then want to brand everyone who does not PvP as a carebear.

I say it's cool, bring on the labels. I'm enjoying this game the way a sandbox game is meant to be played - ie, do what you want, how you want (within the confines of the rules laid down by CCP)

If I get suicide ganked, so be it - The old saying is so true - "Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose".

There are many so-called "carebears" who will kick serious aZZ should they get involved in PvP, so don't kid yourself about being labelled a carebear - it's all good.

Basileus Volkan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-09-27 05:07:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Basileus Volkan
Doing missions or being a dedicated miner or somesuch doesn't automatically make one a Carebear. However, hearing people complain about gate camps or those evil 0.0 goons ruining making their game more interesting shows a certain misunderstanding of the core concepts of this game. While it might be argued that EvE is not _just_ PvP-focused it is beyond doubt that New Eden provides a completely amoral environment where "evil" deeds sometimes have little consequence.

Essentially, the typically Carebear would play WoW only to mine copper in Dun Morogh and then complain about those big bad Horde types killing him. Except in EvE, as it stands, you can get every metal except Obsidian in Dun Morogh and reach level 85 AND get beautiful epixx to boot. Which makes their sentiment even more hilarious.

Edit: And let's not forget that Empire pubbies are usually the ones to cry wolf at the slightest opportunity, blame CCP/The CSM/Goons for everything bad that ever happened to them and generally behave like aforementioned WoWtards.
Intergalactic Expeditionary Corp
#16 - 2011-09-27 05:22:14 UTC

it's just a word.

i can assure you that EVERY PVPer has at least one CARABERING ACCOUNT, be it trading, missioning, industry... be it just looting the wrecks and reprocessing..

what do you think enables a pvper to get one ship per week blown up minimum, we have to get ISK too.

Also everyone started as a carabear, so everyone is a carabear a little bit!

the end.
#17 - 2011-09-27 05:34:24 UTC
The problem here is that some people can not or will not understand that we all play and view this game in a different way

I pay for this game and i will play this game how i want it , within the boundries ccp has created ,
CCP is giving players the opportunity to be play this game in many different ways, some people just don't or will not understand this

There is indeed a focus in pvp and that makes the game so good
Meaning that each time you undock you are taking a risk and you always need to look over your shoulders

And there are indeed people who avoid any possible danger or risk and even demand a 10 man escort just to get from Amarr to jita , for them the world ends at the last gate in high sec. sad but true

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

#18 - 2011-09-27 05:34:30 UTC  |  Edited by: pussnheels
double post please ignore

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Barricade Dark
#19 - 2011-09-27 06:16:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Barricade Dark
Well I played as a carebear with my main for many years, though I'm not even sure I actually qualify since while I was an industrial character I rarely stayed confined to High Sec, the ISK and ventures where usually in at least low sec if not Null and more recently in Wormholes. That said however when I decided to make a new account and make a new character I wanted to try out some new ways to play Eve (though I stil do industrial ventures).

So far my experiances have been awsome and I'm having a lot of fun with PvP, but the truth is that the wining from other PvPers is as extreme and common as the carebears. The imaturity and local tears are endless.

Last night for example I was doing some PI transports in a basic indi and I ran up on a gate camp. I tried to break through it but their where just too many of them (I counted about 7 or 8 ships). But I noticed that I had an oppertunity their, given that all of the gate campers where -10.0 sec rating so they couldn't cross into the high sec side of the gate. I formulated a plan where I would warn people about the gate camp. Got in my rifter and started putting out "WARNING: GATE CAMP" named cans. I was expecting some kind of response, at first they just sent alts to clean up the cans so I poped the alts. After I killed the guy however the tears and imaturity started. He called be a ****, he cried about how I was a noob and put up cans calling me names and stuff. Not exactly the PvPer response I was expecting. But I persisted, hoping someone would actually grow some balls and in the meantime I was definitily having an impact on their gate camp success, at least half the people where smart enough to read the cans and turn around (though some people still went through and would return in pods which was kind of sad). I did save an Obelisk and got a personal thank you which was cool to see I was having an impact.

Anyway after the tears the gate camp eventually gave up but one guy came back and I goted him into some real PvP. I tried double teaming him with my main in a stealth bomber and my rifter, but I ended up loosing the rifter and barely escaped with the Stealth bomber. My oppossition was a 05er in a rifter, which I should probobly have been able to beat but I think my fitting on the Stealth Bomber was all wrong. Anywho, it was an awsome experiance... but just go to show you that a single nub can have a real impact on an entire gate camp and more importantly that PvPers are often as big of babies as the carebears.

The lesson here is... play the game... do something, crying in Local... well.. lets just say that the guy was a real emberassment to his group. Thankfully one of his friends was more mature and showed some skill in the end their and redeamed his reputation a bit.
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2011-09-27 06:17:51 UTC
99.9% of eve players do some form of carebearing. Just some do it more than others. The hate in part comes when in 0.0 a defense fleet is called yet a bunch of people don't turn up as theyre to busy farming the land you're going to protect. I think that's part of the reason the nc failed, most of the time fleets were made up of a core few who got burnt out while the majority were farming like mad.

Most people carebear though, its how they afford ships. Some of the carebear hate comes from those that get free income like many corp and alliance leaderships who skim taxes or people that bot/rmt and look at carebears as stupid.
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