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The CSM Internal vote for chairman WHAT A JOKE

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Cosmic Fart
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-04-05 14:09:20 UTC
More tears please.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#22 - 2012-04-05 14:40:29 UTC
The Mittani wrote:

With CSM7's term beginning on April 4th, I now exercise my right as the winner of the election with 10,058 votes to decline the office of Chairman. It will then be up to CSM7 as a group to decide how to proceed regarding the Chair.



So let's see how this actually works.
Elections are done, all votes are in and counted.
Drama happens.
The Mittani himself says that he exercises his right as the winner of the election to decline chairmanship and that it will be up to CSM7 as a group to decide how to proceed in regards to the chair.

Whitepaper clearly indicates that :

"If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility at any time for any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to elect another Chairman"

I think all rules were followed by the letter.

But ofcourse there will always be people yelling "WOLF" , mostly those who gain least and / or lose most.
Frying Doom
#23 - 2012-04-05 15:00:42 UTC
Cosmic Fart wrote:
More tears please.

I'm sorry I take it this wasn't for me as all references to tears, crying and how to loose 10058 votes are now about the Goonswarm and you should refer all questions on those subjects to them. Please give everyone fore knowledge so we can have our buckets handy for collection of said tears.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#24 - 2012-04-05 15:07:27 UTC
Sir Patrick Moore wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:


if you take a look outside your alliance chat you'll see that pretty much everybody else IS laughing Big smile


Ok?

You goons really need to get out of your alliance chat more with answers like "Ok?" on people laughing..Everyone is still laughing at you Goons. Your corp started so well but you are a stagnant rotting corpse of what once was.


Good switch, I think you'll definitely have more luck getting into Jades pants than Isslers what with the space brothel and all that....


Well if we can move past the RL personal harrassment and ongoing attempts to ruin my professional reputation by posting my RL picture alongside allegations of child sex abuse by the goonswarm directorate, then perhaps we could have a proper discussion of precisely why you think the election of a replacement chair was improperly handled.

Do you think you are intellectually-capable of putting aside the ooc harrassment for long enough to have that discussion?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-04-05 15:16:15 UTC
See Phantom this is what happens when calls to ban NPC forum alts from CSM forums are ignored.
Banderlei Shiiba
SSAP KG
#26 - 2012-04-05 17:13:53 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:

So let's see how this actually works.
Elections are done, all votes are in and counted.
Drama happens.
The Mittani himself says that he exercises his right as the winner of the election to decline chairmanship and that it will be up to CSM7 as a group to decide how to proceed in regards to the chair.

Whitepaper clearly indicates that :

"If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility at any time for any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to elect another Chairman"

I think all rules were followed by the letter.

But ofcourse there will always be people yelling "WOLF" , mostly those who gain least and / or lose most.


The part you left out was CCP's actual punishment being different than what Mittens actually did. Mittens tried to give up the CSM 7 chair and remain on the council, but CCP took it as him resigning his CSM 6 char, and then banning him so he wouldn't even BE eligble to become a member of CSM 7, which means he wasn't able to resign from a position he never actually held. Had he stepped down on Day 1, or been allowed to keep his CSM 7 seat, what you said would be 100% the way to go. That's not what actually went down, though.

Granted, I don't actually care about Seleene or Two Step holding the chair anyway - by rights, it should be Two Step, but most everyone else on the council backed Seleene, so vOv. Probably something that should be clarified in the White Paper going forward, though, given how CCP handled the whole punishment thing.
None ofthe Above
#27 - 2012-04-05 17:44:18 UTC
Jeebus,

You guys can't stop yourself can you?

The white paper called for "If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility at any time for any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to elect another Chairman – should the Chairman voluntarily step down as one he is still eligible for the position during the vote for a new Chairman."

I note the "rescind", Mittani decided not to accept the chair, so rescinded his responsibility.

He was banned and ineligible to sit afterwards.

Furthermore this is the only mechanism in the whitepaper for choosing a new chair if the person elected doesn't have it.

It was my and others reading before this, that this was what they had to do. If they hadn't, there would be another group of tin-foil hat wearing forum warriors screaming right now.

One could argue it's better this way anyway, and maybe the Chair of the council should ALWAYS be an office elected by the council. The council needs to be able to organize itself to work most efficiently.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Sir Patrick Moore
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-04-05 18:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Patrick Moore
Jade Constantine wrote:
Sir Patrick Moore wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:


if you take a look outside your alliance chat you'll see that pretty much everybody else IS laughing Big smile


Ok?

You goons really need to get out of your alliance chat more with answers like "Ok?" on people laughing..Everyone is still laughing at you Goons. Your corp started so well but you are a stagnant rotting corpse of what once was.


Good switch, I think you'll definitely have more luck getting into Jades pants than Isslers what with the space brothel and all that....


Well if we can move past the RL personal harrassment and ongoing attempts to ruin my professional reputation by posting my RL picture alongside allegations of child sex abuse by the goonswarm directorate, then perhaps we could have a proper discussion of precisely why you think the election of a replacement chair was improperly handled.

Do you think you are intellectually-capable of putting aside the ooc harrassment for long enough to have that discussion?



Sorry, didn't realize I'd said there was a problem with the way the replacement of the chair was handled?
Oh wait, that was just you making **** up again.
You keep plugging away sweetie....

Sir Patrick Moore CBE, FRS, FRAS Hon. Vice President of the Royal Astronomical Society
Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-04-05 18:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarsus Zateki
Vile rat wrote:
Aradus Gunnell wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf


The White Paper seems pretty clear to me on how this all goes down; where exactly did CCP change the voting schemata? Page 16 of the CSM governing document clearly states that if the Chairman is in any way removed (voluntarily or involuntarily) from his/her seat, the CSM members hold an internal election for the Chair.

This was in place long before the current debacle, no?


Not trolling, I'm asking honestly: at what point did the document change from something else to its current iteration? Where were changes made along the line?




Mittani stepped down from CSM 6 and was ineligible to sit in CSM 7. The chair never existed and the highest vote total of the eligible candidates was Two step.


The chair never existed in the first place. Its a position The Mittani invented out of thin air to solidify his power over the lesser "people" on the CSM and everyone just ran with it. Much like the OP's post was invented so that pubbie filth would have a new talking point to moan and whine about.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Sir Patrick Moore
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-04-05 18:08:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Patrick Moore
Frying Doom wrote:

are you from the United states? just wondering as about 1/3 of EvE's voters are from the United States and I know myth busters is a well liked show there tooSmile



You should google me, I'm quite famous in the SPACESHIP community. Also only legitimate wearer of a monocle in these here forums :smug:

Sir Patrick Moore CBE, FRS, FRAS Hon. Vice President of the Royal Astronomical Society
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#31 - 2012-04-05 18:13:05 UTC
I understand how some folks might have expected CCP to just to pick the next highest number of votes for chair and in fact, I voted that way but there hasn't ever been this situation in the CSM in the past. As a result we were told to vote for our chair as if Mittens had declined to be the chair. Remember, Mittens even went on the record as having resigned the chair even though technically he never was entitled to it. So this is the correct outcome in the end.

I really considered voting Seleene (more aligned with my views regarding industry) but in the end I was compelled by the idea that the voters were going to expect the next highest number of votes to get the option of the chair.

Seleene will be excellent in the chair and I'm not disappointed with the result. The chair is more ceremonial with the current CSM process anyways so this isn't an issue to get wrapped around the axle about.

So far, I'm not seeing any of the bias being suggested here, all the CSM seems committed to "big picture, all of Eve thinking" so I'd ask the player base to give the CSM 7 a chance to find our stride and get some work done, then you can judge if the CSM 7 is being effective at offering the feedback to CCP to truly improve Eve.

(by the way, the vote for Hans as secretary was because I find him extremely effective at communication and I would have loved to see how he would have done in the role)

So give the CSM 7 chance to show you who we each are, then if you still perceive a problem with particular candidates I know you won't be shy about sharing that concern with the rest of Eve! Big smile

Issler
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#32 - 2012-04-05 18:14:26 UTC
Sir Patrick Moore wrote:
Sorry, didn't realize I'd said there was a problem with the way the replacement of the chair was handled?Oh wait, that was just you making **** up again.
You keep plugging away sweetie....


Pretty ironic to be accused of making stuff up by a goon.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Dry Martinis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-04-05 18:15:43 UTC
I don't care for goons, but it sickens me to see 10k ignored. Especially when that 10k is most of CCP's business. You guys can hit the goons with at the sarcastic and "moar tears" comments that you like, but they keep eve interesting and keep stuff going. If they all left today eve would not be half as engaging. Keep acting like CCP can afford to lose the pirates/griefers and scammers of eve. When the game shuts down cause ccp can't pay the bills, then you can go play wow or rift I guess. Unless you really think dust is gonna save the day...........................

CAPS LOCK: CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL.
Sir Patrick Moore
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-04-05 18:26:53 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Sir Patrick Moore wrote:
Sorry, didn't realize I'd said there was a problem with the way the replacement of the chair was handled?Oh wait, that was just you making **** up again.
You keep plugging away sweetie....


Pretty ironic to be accused of making stuff up by a goon.



If it quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
Personally I think Seleene will do well. But I'm sure you'll disregard that as you do with everything else that doesn't fit into your preconceived prejudices and stereotypes...

Sir Patrick Moore CBE, FRS, FRAS Hon. Vice President of the Royal Astronomical Society
Banderlei Shiiba
SSAP KG
#35 - 2012-04-05 19:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Banderlei Shiiba
None ofthe Above wrote:
Jeebus,

You guys can't stop yourself can you?

The white paper called for "If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility at any time for any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to elect another Chairman – should the Chairman voluntarily step down as one he is still eligible for the position during the vote for a new Chairman."

I note the "rescind", Mittani decided not to accept the chair, so rescinded his responsibility.

He was banned and ineligible to sit afterwards..


His ban made him ineligible to sit, meaning he couldn't rescind a title he never officially held, as this all went down before CSM 7 had officially started, and CSM 6 was still active. If you don't agree with that interpretation, that's fine (hopefully you'd at least agree that clarification is required for the future), but to keep quoting that Whitepaper excerpt when it's been explained pretty clearly why that doesn't work is just kind of stupid fyi.

Issler Dainze wrote:
I understand how some folks might have expected CCP to just to pick the next highest number of votes for chair and in fact, I voted that way but there hasn't ever been this situation in the CSM in the past. As a result we were told to vote for our chair as if Mittens had declined to be the chair. Remember, Mittens even went on the record as having resigned the chair even though technically he never was entitled to it. So this is the correct outcome in the end.


So just to clarify here, you (the CSM) were directed to act as if he had resigned by CCP themselves?

(This isn't some kind of attempt at a "gotcha" either, I'm just legitimately curious if interpreting the situation like this was an internal decision or a CCP directive)
Cosmic Fart
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-04-05 19:20:10 UTC
quote=Dry Martinis]I don't care for goons, but it sickens me to see 10k ignored. Especially when that 10k is most of CCP's business. You guys can hit the goons with at the sarcastic and "moar tears" comments that you like, but they keep eve interesting and keep stuff going. If they all left today eve would not be half as engaging. Keep acting like CCP can afford to lose the pirates/griefers and scammers of eve. When the game shuts down cause ccp can't pay the bills, then you can go play wow or rift I guess. Unless you really think dust is gonna save the day........................... [/quote]



The votes weren't ignored but waisted by Mittens because of his actions. If the table were turned, the forums would be a glow with "HTFU" and "LOL" by Goons and their supporters.

I doubt 10k goons are going to quit (we aren't that lucky.) just because their leader was reprimanded and punished for "HIS" premeditated actions. I'd like to think that some Goons can still think for themselves and realize wrong is just wrong!

CCP knows and understands that inaction would mean far greater implications, not just buckets of Goon tears.

There has to be accountablity for one's action. This wasn't the first time someone in Goons blantantly broke EULA/TOS, just so happens to be the first time it was done in such a public arena as Fanfest.


As for burning down Jita, I hope that CCP bans any participates as this action would be a reaction and support of; someone who has already been banned for violations related to EULA/TOS.


oh... not all pirates affiliate themselves with Goons. Fact is no REAL pirate ever would!


The game will no more shut down because a few goons quit the game. However the game would shut down if CCP were to allow silly behaviour shown during Fanfest.
VCBee 180
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-04-05 19:25:22 UTC
i'm gay
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#38 - 2012-04-05 19:25:22 UTC
Banderlei Shiiba wrote:

Issler Dainze wrote:
I understand how some folks might have expected CCP to just to pick the next highest number of votes for chair and in fact, I voted that way but there hasn't ever been this situation in the CSM in the past. As a result we were told to vote for our chair as if Mittens had declined to be the chair. Remember, Mittens even went on the record as having resigned the chair even though technically he never was entitled to it. So this is the correct outcome in the end.


So just to clarify here, you (the CSM) were directed to act as if he had resigned by CCP themselves?

(This isn't some kind of attempt at a "gotcha" either, I'm just legitimately curious if interpreting the situation like this was an internal decision or a CCP directive)


We were told by CCP Xhagen that we were required to vote for Chairman. This is why Korvin wasn't added to CSM 7 as well (he was #15)

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Banderlei Shiiba
SSAP KG
#39 - 2012-04-05 19:29:15 UTC
Two step wrote:
We were told by CCP Xhagen that we were required to vote for Chairman. This is why Korvin wasn't added to CSM 7 as well (he was #15)


Ahh, thanks for sharing that. That pretty much puts this issue to bed, then*.

* for about 12 hours until the next dumbass thread
Nicia Kami Tha-Pax
Vilinska dezela
#40 - 2012-04-05 19:38:11 UTC
Dry Martinis wrote:
I don't care for goons, but it sickens me to see 10k ignored. Especially when that 10k is most of CCP's business. You guys can hit the goons with at the sarcastic and "moar tears" comments that you like, but they keep eve interesting and keep stuff going. If they all left today eve would not be half as engaging. Keep acting like CCP can afford to lose the pirates/griefers and scammers of eve. When the game shuts down cause ccp can't pay the bills, then you can go play wow or rift I guess. Unless you really think dust is gonna save the day...........................


got my "thumb up"

@ cosmic farth ... i do not belive CPP can afford to be as simplistic as you are. For one, they have bills to pay.