These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Armor repairer vs Shield boosters
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-04-05 15:21:35 UTC
Ok. SImple question, can someone answer this: Why do armor repairers repair less than shield boosters? And why does a myrm with repair bonus have to equip 3 reppers just to be able to tank anything properly?

Now GO!! Discuss !!

(Pilots who are here to say "because Gallente suck" can **** off)

Thank you.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2 - 2012-04-05 15:26:41 UTC
Because armour ≠ shields.

Also, to tank properly, the Myrm just has to passive-shield tank.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#3 - 2012-04-05 15:58:16 UTC
Sonny Dang wrote:
Ok. SImple question, can someone answer this: Why do armor repairers repair less than shield boosters? And why does a myrm with repair bonus have to equip 3 reppers just to be able to tank anything properly?

Now GO!! Discuss !!

(Pilots who are here to say "because Gallente suck" can **** off)

Thank you.



Why does armour have a passive resistance modifier for omni, and not an active one.
Why do shields only have an active for omni and not an active one.

Oh:

Tippia wrote:
Because armour ≠ shields.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Yabba Addict
Legion of the Many
#4 - 2012-04-05 16:05:43 UTC
Because variety is a good thing, contrary to popular belief
Daphny Naarma
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-04-05 16:37:11 UTC
Yabba Addict wrote:
Because variety is a good thing, contrary to popular belief

I concur and thus, am not popular.

On a more serious note: shields are not armor. It is a good thing that you can choose between different ways of modify the ships you are flying. If everyone looked/worked the same, the game would not be as appealing. There are several other games who do this (eg same effect, different graphics), so do not dispair.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-04-05 16:39:10 UTC
Because armor repairers give 33,3% more repair per capacitor.
Armor repairers are supposed to be cap stable while shield boosters are burst style reps.
Arrigo Glokta
#7 - 2012-04-05 16:51:39 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Because armor repairers give 33,3% more repair per capacitor.
Armor repairers are supposed to be cap stable while shield boosters are burst style reps.



33% is a hard number eh?

Until you factor in passive shield reps and availability of shield boosters.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#8 - 2012-04-05 17:08:27 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
As stated, armor != shields.

-Most active tanked armor ships have the slot-layout, cap, and grid to fit dual armor reps. Most shield ships can only fit one booster effectively.

-Armor tanking gets an oversize plate (1600mm), the highest shield extender (large) is comparable to the 800mm plate.

-Shield tanking gets an oversized booster (XL booster) and a shield boost amplifier (I think its ~25% bonus to rep).

-Active shield tanking is more cap-intensive and reps at the beginning of the cycle. Active armor tanking reps at the end of the cycle, but is much more cap efficient.

-Armor tanking doesn't use up utility midslots, shield tanking typically does. Active shield tanking (usually) doesn't use up potential damage mods in the low slots.

-Armor gets more variety in their resist mods, getting passive invulns (Energized and non-energized adaptive nanos), passive damage-specific passive hardners (Energized and non-energized), and active hardners. Shield gets active invulns and hardners that are cap dependant but stronger than armor equivalent, but only one type of passive hardner.


So yeah, armor and shield active tanking are quite different, as are the slot layouts and fitting specs of the ships that use both tanks.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-04-05 17:14:37 UTC
armor tankers get more slots to tank since mids are free for props, tackle and injectors.

deal with it

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Adacia Calla
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-04-05 17:40:59 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:

deal with it

Test signature....forum not applying settings :(
Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-04-05 18:29:48 UTC
coolbeans, so at the end, both have it's advantages and disadvantages ... nice ...

Anyways, the only effectively armor repper gallente ships that i know are the myrmidon and hyperion because they have the bonus. Does that mean that every other gallente ship should be buffer tank?

I've seen some gallente ships with repairs module but for the majority, ships such as the vexor, thorax, dominix or the megathron, I've never seen anyone fit reppers on them when pvp. Does that mean that these ships are better off buffer tanking and not active tanking?

Have YOU ever fit reppers on these ships when pvping? If so then how did that work?

(I tried active tanking a Talos ... it's the equivalent of active tanking a frigate)
Yabba Addict
Legion of the Many
#12 - 2012-04-05 21:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Yabba Addict
The talos isn't meant to be tanked, period, that's not how they work. As for active armour, sure, alot of frigs do this well, most notably the rifter. Domis can sport decent tanks also, but the king of armour tanking is amarr. The dual rep sac has a beastly tank
Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-04-05 21:50:11 UTC
by comparing an active tank talos to an active tank frigate i was basically saying that in the presence of anything other than a frigate, the talos is pretty much dead ... but ok

has anyone ever tried putting reps on a mega?
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#14 - 2012-04-05 23:19:28 UTC
I buffer tank my mega, but dual rep or single rep with a plate mega used to be used a lot for solo. Hardly see solo mega nowadays so can't really comment if it's still viable.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2012-04-05 23:30:15 UTC
Sonny Dang wrote:
by comparing an active tank talos to an active tank frigate i was basically saying that in the presence of anything other than a frigate, the talos is pretty much dead ... but ok

The idea behind the Talos is that it is supposed to nuke it's target using its absurd DPS (I get close to 1000 with an armor fit... imagine what kind of DPS you get with the shield-gank fit)

How did you Veterans start?
Perihelion Olenard
#16 - 2012-04-06 00:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Perihelion Olenard
Yabba Addict wrote:
Because variety is a good thing, contrary to popular belief

I don't consider one being inferior to the other as variety. Even with a bonus the dual rep myrmidon, brutix, and hyperion tanks for crap. Single repairer is useless. There's no active-tanking set of implants for armor, either. Sure, you can use drugs to increase the effectiveness of repairers, but shield boosters have their own drugs as well.

At least, this is how it is now. I remember many years ago when active armor tanks were good. Now that everyone got damage buffs active tanks are lacking. At least neutralizers may be getting balanced and nosferatus may be getting better.

While I admit I may be EFT warrioring a bit, you cannot deny the depressing number for a dual armor repairer tank compared to weapon DPS numbers that can come out these days. This is why you see a shield buffer brutix, now. It really sickens me to see it.

One thing I see is that buffer rigs are not penalized, but active tank rigs are. I would like to see active tank rigs to not be penalized. It may be too much to remove the stacking penalty of resist rigs, but perhaps not the stacking penalty of the aux nano pumps.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-04-06 03:33:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
Sonny Dang wrote:
coolbeans, so at the end, both have it's advantages and disadvantages ... nice ...

Anyways, the only effectively armor repper gallente ships that i know are the myrmidon and hyperion because they have the bonus. Does that mean that every other gallente ship should be buffer tank?

I've seen some gallente ships with repairs module but for the majority, ships such as the vexor, thorax, dominix or the megathron, I've never seen anyone fit reppers on them when pvp. Does that mean that these ships are better off buffer tanking and not active tanking?

Have YOU ever fit reppers on these ships when pvping? If so then how did that work?

(I tried active tanking a Talos ... it's the equivalent of active tanking a frigate)


I am basically a "pure" gallente pilot and I am in FW, so we see smaller fights on a regular basis. I do a lot of "hybrid" tanks with a buffer + at least one repper. Honestly - I think the utility of most of the ships below is going to be limited outside of FW plex fights...

Some active tank ships I fly regularly in small gangs:

Tristan, Comet, Ishkur (and Enyo I hear) all do well with active tanks.

Vexor: 1600 plate + MARII + small AC or blasters + small nos. This is probably the ship I fly most often in medium plex fights. It is a "swiss army knife" fit. If I dont know what I will be facing, this is the ship I will bring. I go through them pretty fast. It has a nice buffer and the repper is very useful when facing smaller ships. You cant fit a cap booster though, so a neut hurts. AB instead of MWD is a nice change. You can also dual rep the Vexor. Crazy.

Thorax: dual rep (meta 4 tech 1) with medium electrons. I have come close to soloing, in different fights, tempest, talos, naga. Each time, their buddy showed up and saved them at last second. The tempest got out in 5% structure before he neuted my point off... I have died horridly each time, but damn it was fun.

Dual rep brutix and myrm of course. I have read about the dual rep Talos, and heard some stories, but I suspect they are probably lies. ;)

Dual rep Myrm + 1600 plate + medium electrons or AC. Nice bait ship. Dont plan on outrunning anything though.

Some "pvp video ships" that I havent personally flown, but they do well in edited videos at least. ;)

"Kessah Dominix" with Dual LRAR active tank and medium neutron blasters, AC, or lasers.

"Kil2 Megathron" with 2x1600 plates + 1 LRAR. Fits Ions, Electrons and a large neut in the high slots.

I havent flow active tank shield ships yet, but I will be well skilled for a cyclone in a few days, so I am going to give that a try. Looking forward to it.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-04-06 09:02:19 UTC
Perihelion Olenard wrote:

While I admit I may be EFT warrioring a bit, you cannot deny the depressing number for a dual armor repairer tank compared to weapon DPS numbers that can come out these days. This is why you see a shield buffer brutix, now. It really sickens me to see it.


Yeah that's true. Even with repair bonus, some people still prefer to shield tank instead of utilizing the bonus given. Maybe it is because they want the low slots for damage mods but why not use the bonus? I think the answer to this is that people feel that active armor tanking is unreliable, that's why they even considered shield tanking a boat with armor repairers in the first place ... that too disturbs me.

Also, the argument that some might shield tank for damage mod might only be applicable for a Brutix. This argument however, is in no way applicable for a Hyperion (yes, because I've seen people shield tank a Hyperion). The Hyperion has enough slots for both damage mods AND reppers ... so why not armor tank it? Shield tanking it would only increase the enormous sig res that it already has and fill up the med slots that could be used for tackling mod ...
Sonny Dang
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-04-06 09:05:44 UTC
Hrett wrote:

"Kil2 Megathron" with 2x1600 plates + 1 LRAR. Fits Ions, Electrons and a large neut in the high slots.


Hmm ... I'm curious about that ... how did that work for you?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#20 - 2012-04-06 15:43:24 UTC
Sonny Dang wrote:
The Hyperion has enough slots for both damage mods AND reppers ... so why not armor tank it? Shield tanking it would only increase the enormous sig res that it already has and fill up the med slots that could be used for tackling mod ...


The thing is, the Hyp really doesn't have enough lows for a competitive number of damage mods+dual rep. The extra mid is nice for injectors, but it would want one more low for an "ideal" dual rep/damage layout and would most definitely need another low for a full buffer fit.

This is actually the case on many Gallente active armor-bonused ships: they are short a low but long on mids. This forces either a dual rep bleeder setup, which sometimes works, or a shield buffer gank setup, which also sometimes works.

I'm actually fond of the options it presents. The major issue comes in when those ships need to fit armor resist tanks (for work with Logis). They lack the lows to get resists up and lack the bonus to resists that Amarr tank-bonused ships have, meaning Logis have to work that much harder to keep them topped off.
123Next pageLast page