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Minerals free or not?
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Nub Sauce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-04-03 21:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nub Sauce
Anyone who thinks the argument against MIMAF is due to supposed undercutting has an 1D10T error loop in their brain.

People who sell under market value are basically giving us (the savvy industrialist or trader) their profitls. And how can you really be against that in the slightest? I love it.

However, there is the matter of the MIMAF simply be untrue. Not only are there opportunity costs, but it also costs isk to train for, buy, and replace mining ships/equipment. This is a basic fact.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#42 - 2012-04-03 21:42:55 UTC
Nub Sauce wrote:
Anyone who thinks the argument against MIMAF is due to supposed undercutting has an 1D10T error loop in their brain.

People who sell under market value are basically giving us (the savvy industrialist or trader) their profitls. And how can you really be against that in the slightest? I love it.

However, there is the matter of the MIMAF simply be untrue. Not only are there opportunity costs, but it also costs isk to train for, buy, and replace mining ships/equipment. This is a basic fact.


The annoying bit is where they only undercut by a percent and a half. Makes it harder to buy and relist for a profit Blink

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Nub Sauce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-04-03 21:57:35 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Nub Sauce wrote:
Anyone who thinks the argument against MIMAF is due to supposed undercutting has an 1D10T error loop in their brain.

People who sell under market value are basically giving us (the savvy industrialist or trader) their profitls. And how can you really be against that in the slightest? I love it.

However, there is the matter of the MIMAF simply be untrue. Not only are there opportunity costs, but it also costs isk to train for, buy, and replace mining ships/equipment. This is a basic fact.


The annoying bit is where they only undercut by a percent and a half. Makes it harder to buy and relist for a profit Blink


But then you may be dealing with your average trader.
Hzzah
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-04-04 01:01:12 UTC
wow
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-04-04 05:38:57 UTC
what is money
money is your work expressed as a number, in this case isk

miners will mine lots of ore, then refine with low refine skills ( losing profit)
they then use a bpo to make some sort of ship or module, probably not researched ( losing lots more profit)
they then UNDERCUT everyone to try and sell their stuff faster

so if they mined 30mil in ore
they lose 10% from refining
they lost 10% from using a unresearched bpo
they lose some from the actual manufacture
they then undercut everyone possibly losing even more.
Lydia Rose Nightingale
Giant Industrials
Center for Digital Chemistry
#46 - 2012-04-04 12:09:29 UTC
Herping yourDerp wrote:
what is money
money is your work expressed as a number, in this case isk

miners will mine lots of ore, then refine with low refine skills ( losing profit)
they then use a bpo to make some sort of ship or module, probably not researched ( losing lots more profit)
they then UNDERCUT everyone to try and sell their stuff faster

so if they mined 30mil in ore
they lose 10% from refining
they lost 10% from using a unresearched bpo
they lose some from the actual manufacture
they then undercut everyone possibly losing even more.



In most cases, mostly newbies or people not understanding mathematics, this is true.
But when you maxed out refining skills?
Have the standing for 0% refining tax?
Have at least a researched BPC?
So the losses between teh moment you mine to the moment you produce are at minimum. At that moment you get to the point you as a producer have to decide what your time is worth.
Or find some one with to much money willing to pay to much.
Rengerel en Distel
#47 - 2012-04-04 12:22:03 UTC
Lydia Rose Nightingale wrote:
Herping yourDerp wrote:
what is money
money is your work expressed as a number, in this case isk

miners will mine lots of ore, then refine with low refine skills ( losing profit)
they then use a bpo to make some sort of ship or module, probably not researched ( losing lots more profit)
they then UNDERCUT everyone to try and sell their stuff faster

so if they mined 30mil in ore
they lose 10% from refining
they lost 10% from using a unresearched bpo
they lose some from the actual manufacture
they then undercut everyone possibly losing even more.



In most cases, mostly newbies or people not understanding mathematics, this is true.
But when you maxed out refining skills?
Have the standing for 0% refining tax?
Have at least a researched BPC?
So the losses between teh moment you mine to the moment you produce are at minimum. At that moment you get to the point you as a producer have to decide what your time is worth.
Or find some one with to much money willing to pay to much.


The minerals always have a value, which the MIMAF crowd generally disavows. They consider anything they make to be pure profit, and there's little you can do to talk them out of that belief. The only thing you can do usually is to atleast get them not to list something under the mineral value of the reprocessed goods.

The "it's just a game" crowd is even worse, because they know what you're saying, but will still actively work against a profit model. They are like the suicide gankers of the marketplace, where their own fun is more important than other people's fun, and enjoy the tears they produce.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Lydia Rose Nightingale
Giant Industrials
Center for Digital Chemistry
#48 - 2012-04-04 12:29:04 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Lydia Rose Nightingale wrote:
Herping yourDerp wrote:
what is money
money is your work expressed as a number, in this case isk

miners will mine lots of ore, then refine with low refine skills ( losing profit)
they then use a bpo to make some sort of ship or module, probably not researched ( losing lots more profit)
they then UNDERCUT everyone to try and sell their stuff faster

so if they mined 30mil in ore
they lose 10% from refining
they lost 10% from using a unresearched bpo
they lose some from the actual manufacture
they then undercut everyone possibly losing even more.



In most cases, mostly newbies or people not understanding mathematics, this is true.
But when you maxed out refining skills?
Have the standing for 0% refining tax?
Have at least a researched BPC?
So the losses between teh moment you mine to the moment you produce are at minimum. At that moment you get to the point you as a producer have to decide what your time is worth.
Or find some one with to much money willing to pay to much.


The minerals always have a value, which the MIMAF crowd generally disavows. They consider anything they make to be pure profit, and there's little you can do to talk them out of that belief. The only thing you can do usually is to atleast get them not to list something under the mineral value of the reprocessed goods.

The "it's just a game" crowd is even worse, because they know what you're saying, but will still actively work against a profit model. They are like the suicide gankers of the marketplace, where their own fun is more important than other people's fun, and enjoy the tears they produce.


Every thing has value. But until you cash in and give it it's value it's for most people an unimaginable value.
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