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incoming tengu nerfs

Author
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#41 - 2012-03-28 03:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Angsty Teenager
Because HAM's are bad without a web/TP on the target and the Cerb has low tank as is without dropping one of it's slots for a TP. And using HAM's is pretty much the only viable thing to do on the Cerb because if you don't, your range bonus goes to waste as the Cerb has a targeting range of 100km and an effective range of 170km with all V skills and HM's w/ scourge fury in. Even if it could target out that far, missiles aren't really that viable for sniper platforms for obvious reasons (flight time), and assuming an engagement range of under 100km the drake is cheaper, has more tank, and does more dps than a cerb.

Particularly if you consider a nano drake, you do more dps, have more tank, less fitting issues, less cap issues, roughly the same speed, and drones and a web (or 2) to deal with frigs.
Tikera Tissant
#42 - 2012-03-28 09:41:01 UTC
To be honest I don't see any reason to nerf the tengu at all.
For a ship which cost 3 or maybe 4 times the cost of the T2, and with the dying skill penalty, the ship is right where it should be.
The T2s are just aren't as good as they should be, and I don't see a reason to nerf the T3 to be below a bad ship because the bad ship is... bad.

But I do think that the other T3s need to be similar in the versatility.
Proteus for example is pretty crap for PvE (without 100 AB and blasters, the dps is just horrid), but close contact PvP it does great.
The loki and legion are somewhere in the middle, and I would love to see them buffed a bit (and the proteus being better in PvE).
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-03-28 09:44:14 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
If the Tengu gets nerfed, CCP will handle it the way they handle most nerfs.

The Tengu will be nearly unusable and everyone will start flying Lokis.

Then the Loki's will be nerfed and everyone will start flying Proteuses



Add that we're not used at all to see Minmatar ships ruling almost everywhere and aspect of the game, indeed Loki is in need of a buff. I don't care the only one I can't fly is Legion (yet) but it's not even a problem.
Viribus
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#44 - 2012-04-04 01:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Viribus
They should just buff the damage subsystems of the other T3s to be roughly in line with a Tengu's. The tengu's combined damage and ROF bonus works out to 100% dps increase over unbonused launchers. The other T3s have to make do with a 50% increase to DPS (yes the loki's 37.5% RoF reduction works out to 50% more dps).

Then maybe CCP can think about fixing the multitude of other things wrong with T3s (like the Legion's weird slot layouts, useless drone sub, semi-useless neuting sub, the Proteus' underpowered drone sub, etc.) but they'd probably end up doing more harm than good

EDIT: Also my theory regarding the perception that 100mn Tengus are OP are due to idiots flying nothing but cookiecutter shield battlecruisers and don't realize the value of recons, bonused webs, heavy neuts, logis, TPs, or any of the many things that severely mess up 100mn AB fits. Because, spoilers, 100mn ABs are a direct counter to flavour-of-the-year shield BC/hac fleets.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-04-04 02:11:41 UTC
Quote:
yes the loki's 37.5% RoF reduction works out to 50% more dps


Straight

Please do explain these mathematics.

If a gun shoots once per ten seconds, doing 10 damage, it's doing 1 damage per second.
If a gun shoots 1.375 times per ten seconds, doing 10 damage, it's doing 1.375 damage per second.
JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope
#46 - 2012-04-04 03:03:36 UTC
I'd like to see them nerf 100mn afterburners on cruiser hulls somehow. This would qualify as a nice tengu nerf.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#47 - 2012-04-04 03:25:20 UTC
JackStraw56 wrote:
I'd like to see them nerf 100mn afterburners on cruiser hulls somehow. This would qualify as a nice tengu nerf.

this would be a t3 nerf. problem is the tengu. Not saying that it would be a bad thing but it wouldn't solve the issue.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Viribus
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#48 - 2012-04-04 04:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Viribus
Roosterton wrote:
Quote:
yes the loki's 37.5% RoF reduction works out to 50% more dps


Straight

Please do explain these mathematics.

If a gun shoots once per ten seconds, doing 10 damage, it's doing 1 damage per second.
If a gun shoots 1.375 times per ten seconds, doing 10 damage, it's doing 1.375 damage per second.


That's not how RoF bonuses work, they reduce the cycle time of the module by a percentage. Because of how awesome RoF bonuses are, a Loki actually gets effectively a 60% bonus to dps.

So a gun that shoots once every 10s gets its duration reduced by 37.5%, it gets reduced to 6.25s (10 * (1 - 0.375)).

(1 / 6.25) / (1 / 10) = 1.6 = 60% dps bonus.

Or just open up EFT, put some autocannons on a Ferox and some on a Loki and compare the DPS.

This is also why a 5-gun zealot out-damages a 5-gun legion by a fair amount (25% dmg 25% RoF bonus > 50% dmg bonus)

PS, Tengus are not the problem, 100mn tengus have lots of weaknesses, it's just that no one flies the ships it's weak to because they're not DRAKES N CANES
Sunviking
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-04-04 07:19:54 UTC
CCP just need to increase the Powergrid requirements of battleship-class Afterburners to the point where no Tech3 can fit them.

Job done.
Joyelle
SludgeSlingers
#50 - 2012-04-04 10:44:51 UTC
Sunviking wrote:
CCP just need to increase the Powergrid requirements of battleship-class Afterburners to the point where no Tech3 can fit them.

Job done.

no
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2012-04-04 14:39:28 UTC
Viribus wrote:
Roosterton wrote:
Quote:
yes the loki's 37.5% RoF reduction works out to 50% more dps


Straight

Please do explain these mathematics.

If a gun shoots once per ten seconds, doing 10 damage, it's doing 1 damage per second.
If a gun shoots 1.375 times per ten seconds, doing 10 damage, it's doing 1.375 damage per second.


That's not how RoF bonuses work, they reduce the cycle time of the module by a percentage. Because of how awesome RoF bonuses are, a Loki actually gets effectively a 60% bonus to dps.

So a gun that shoots once every 10s gets its duration reduced by 37.5%, it gets reduced to 6.25s (10 * (1 - 0.375)).

(1 / 6.25) / (1 / 10) = 1.6 = 60% dps bonus.

Or just open up EFT, put some autocannons on a Ferox and some on a Loki and compare the DPS.

This is also why a 5-gun zealot out-damages a 5-gun legion by a fair amount (25% dmg 25% RoF bonus > 50% dmg bonus)

PS, Tengus are not the problem, 100mn tengus have lots of weaknesses, it's just that no one flies the ships it's weak to because they're not DRAKES N CANES


Ah, I get it. So saying that the rate is being increased by 37.5% would then be incorrect terminology - shouldn't the bonus say "-37.5% to turret cycle time" instead?
Viribus
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#52 - 2012-04-04 16:08:11 UTC
Roosterton wrote:
Ah, I get it. So saying that the rate is being increased by 37.5% would then be incorrect terminology - shouldn't the bonus say "-37.5% to turret cycle time" instead?


Yeah it's really semantics.

Anyway people are being babies about the 100mn thing, they're strong against certain ships but have a number of weaknesses (namely the inability to turn and very slow acceleration) and require gimping your fit in some way to shoehorn on the oversized AB
lacal
Meltdown Technologies
#53 - 2012-04-04 17:06:39 UTC
Viribus wrote:
Anyway people are being babies about the 100mn thing, they're strong against certain ships but have a number of weaknesses (namely the inability to turn and very slow acceleration) and require gimping your fit in some way to shoehorn on the oversized AB


Agreed, no need for a tengu nerf - the more people flying them the better as far as I'm concerned.
JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope
#54 - 2012-04-04 22:09:38 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
JackStraw56 wrote:
I'd like to see them nerf 100mn afterburners on cruiser hulls somehow. This would qualify as a nice tengu nerf.

this would be a t3 nerf. problem is the tengu. Not saying that it would be a bad thing but it wouldn't solve the issue.

100mn works much better on tengu than the other T3s though because of its extreme range and no tracking issues, so it would be much more of a tengu nerf than any other t3.
deppth
Sunstone Mining and Industry Assembly
The Singularity.
#55 - 2012-05-01 11:13:29 UTC
Buff the Legion to be in line with other T3's!!
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#56 - 2012-05-01 19:49:58 UTC
I'm on board with a change to over sized prop mods making them unable to be fit on anything but intended hull size.
saucy jackass
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-05-02 18:01:02 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
I'm on board with a change to over sized prop mods making them unable to be fit on anything but intended hull size.



^^Im too cheap to buy a 100mn tengu or too scared to lose one. So nerf it because im jealous!^^
Dio Chrysostom
The Star Of Marx
#58 - 2012-07-09 02:11:12 UTC
I swear to god, between CCP and Blizzard player base will never trust another MMO company again. Why the [email protected]@@ would you nerf the Tengu it is a PVE boat and your already nerfing the drakes tank. What the F%%% are you going to run sites in ? ? that can shoot farther than 5km ?


People !!! The only way we can punish CCP for their Greed and lack of intellect is by hurting their wallets. with all forms of PvP save for blob warfare nerfed. And the nerfing of the 2 most popular site running ships (Drake & Tengu) to the point of them being wothless for running sites. What do some players have left besides going to another MMO that has not sold out for profit yet.


I used to love Eve like family I held out after watching multiple friends quit over the years. I used to feel that no matter what I would never ever quit eve. But in the past 6 months CCP has ruined or announced they are ruining every single way I play the game. Now short of running sites here and there before they nerf the Tengu, all I do is log in and talk with friends who like me have been patched out of their way of life and cannot do antyhing besides talk anymore. How about you nerf something that really f's the ballance of the game up instead of make believe f's it up something like the new ASB.


I will take pleasure in CCPs demise along with actively participating in campaigns against CCP/Eve right after I let my 3 paying characters sub's run out even though I have been plexing them for months. I only wish I could take back money that I already payed to CCP in order to hasten their failure. Me and another scorned buddy of mine are going to start an anti-dust/ anti-CCP blog soon and promote it with vigor across the gaming world. Not that it will really be needed CCP will never be able to compete with GW2 when it comes out because unlike CCP GW has not spurned the hardcore PvP market (yet)
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-07-09 02:27:21 UTC
So, your stuff, can I have it?
Nikodiemus
Geo-Tech Industries
Etsala Legion
#60 - 2012-07-09 02:30:33 UTC
Source?