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Question for the PvPer and the PvErs
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Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-04-03 22:21:44 UTC
Its the age old dillema in EVE. you can fit a ship for either pvp or pve and not both.

This means that if you want to go for a solo roam you can fit for PvE and

Get into something straight away in lowsec/nullsec but you have to run from anyone who make a play for you.

or

You can fit PvP fit and then spend hours looking for a fight that will end in three ways

1. solo encounter (yay)
2. you ganking a ratter/mission runner
3. you running into a blob.


Question

1. Is there a fit that can combine pvp and pve on the same ship without compromising both.

This is very difficult question to answer

Think of a Pilgrim its probably the best explorer/ solo pvp ship in the game but it can only be one and not the other. (can fly cloaked and pick its fights and it never runs out of ammo)


Your very valuable answers are always welcome and a big hello to all the trolls and pretend Aspies/angry loners. And if things continue im sure we will all end up in the same prison somewhere.

Standing in for Karn Dulake who was banned for saying bad words
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-04-03 22:26:02 UTC
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:

Question

1. Is there a fit that can combine pvp and pve on the same ship without compromising both.


I rat in deep 0.0 with an DCU gryo and tracking, LSE, invul autocannon cane, fitted with only scram. Works wonders, I still havent been jumped though.
T' Elk
Strategically Bad
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-04-03 22:27:21 UTC
tl;dr, but: I don't see how it's a dilemma. You either fit for pvp if you want to pvp or fit for pve if you want to be a carebear.

~Badposter since FOOOOREEEEEVAAAAAR~ I come back after 2 years to THIS? ~Now 4 years apparently
Vyl Vit
#4 - 2012-04-03 22:27:34 UTC
Oh sure. Think of it like any MMO. The tanking DPS unit that can heal.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-04-03 22:28:45 UTC
Webs can help in pve...

Scrams not so much

Buffer fits can work in pve.

Find a friend or 2 and pvp fits dont become quite an issue.

Or go to WH or null to bring a bubble...
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#6 - 2012-04-03 22:28:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:
Its the age old dillema in EVE. you can fit a ship for either pvp or pve and not both.

This means that if you want to go for a solo roam you can fit for PvE and

Get into something straight away in lowsec/nullsec but you have to run from anyone who make a play for you.

or

You can fit PvP fit and then spend hours looking for a fight that will end in three ways

1. solo encounter (yay)
2. you ganking a ratter/mission runner
3. you running into a blob.


Question

1. Is there a fit that can combine pvp and pve on the same ship without compromising both.

This is very difficult question to answer

Think of a Pilgrim its probably the best explorer/ solo pvp ship in the game but it can only be one and not the other. (can fly cloaked and pick its fights and it never runs out of ammo)


Your very valuable answers are always welcome and a big hello to all the trolls and pretend Aspies/angry loners. And if things continue im sure we will all end up in the same prison somewhere.


1) Yes. Omni-tanked sentry drone Dominix with a point and a web. Voila! PVE and PVP!

High slots:

4x 425mm Rails (Blasters fit easily instead if you like)
2x Drone Link Augmentor

3x Cap Recharger II
Web
Point

2x Exp Hardener
2x EANM II
Damage Control II
Cap Power Relay II
Large Armor Repairer

2x Sentry Damage Augmentor Rig Thingies.

5x Garde II
5x Warden II
5x EC-300
5x Warrior II
5x Hammerhead II
5x Hogboglin II

If your drone skills are tight enough, replace the big rails with Energy Neuts - you won't miss the dps in PVE and they're a nasty surprise for your PVP victims!

Fly this anywhere that's risky because it's cheap and people are scared of the Domi, whether they admit it or not.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#7 - 2012-04-03 23:10:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Aside from PvP being more active tank-focused, the main difference in fits is that you need tackle mods for PvP, and in most cases also a cap injector. For armor-tanked ships, this means less/no cap rechargers in the mids if you want to be PvE-viable. For shield-tanked ships, this means that you have less of a tank, as your lows are usually dedicated to damage mods in either case.

There are a few ships that can do both relatively well, such as ships that can passively tank shields well: battlecruisers and command ships, and most notably T3 ships like the Tengu.

It would probably serve CCP well to change PvE content in such a manner that at the very least, tackle mods become necessary. For example, make key NPCs try to escape unless tackled, resulting in mission failure. They might offset this change by decreasing incoming damage. They could also decrease the size of cap booster charges further (this was done twice already, was halved once, and then reduced by a further 25%). This way injectors could become viable PvE items.

Edit: CCP could also make cap injectors less viable for PvP, but this might open up a whole can of worms. The primary use of injectors is to feed cap-hungry guns, because active tanks aren't too common in PvP nowadays. If lasers and hybrids didn't need cap, then there would be more overlap between PvP and PvE fits. How good of an idea this is is of course up for debate.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#8 - 2012-04-03 23:13:25 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The main difference in fits is that you need tackle mods for PvP, and in most cases also a cap injector. For armor-tanked ships, this means less/no cap rechargers in the mids if you want to be PvE-viable. For shield-tanked ships, this means that you have less of a tank, as your lows are usually dedicated to damage mods in either case.

There are a few ships that can do both relatively well, such as ships that can passively tank shields well: battlecruisers and command ships, and most notably T3 ships like the Tengu.

It would probably serve CCP well to change PvE content in such a manner that at the very least, tackle mods become necessary. For example, make key NPCs try to escape unless tackled, resulting in mission failure. They might offset this change by decreasing incoming damage. They could also decrease the size of cap booster charges further (this was done twice already, was halved once, and then reduced by a further 25%). This way injectors could become viable PvE items.


If they do this they'd have to rebalance all the slots an all the ships again, IMHO.

That would be...tedious.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-04-03 23:13:41 UTC
anathema with gatling gun
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#10 - 2012-04-03 23:25:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Skydell
The dispairity for PvE and PvP is you don't apply back up for PvE.

When you get 10 guys together to go on a roam, they may send in a bait ship but the bait ship is usually a PvP ship just the same.
Nobody sets up Bait camping fleets wher 2 guys are deignated to rat while 8 or 18 are PvP on call.

One of the most effective systems I have seen was NC when we would PvP fit and do fleet ratting. Blap the PvE and force roaming fleets to address a full fleet if they tried to intrude. PvP Blap fleets won't worry about a few NPC battleships, they are designed to kill Players.

The trouble was it didn't happen enough. Alliances really need to stop hiding from the closet monsters, say screw the spies and have Blap fleet channels. Rather than roam, look for targets, just rat and if they come they do, if they don't whatever. -A- does this I think and they have been successfull at it. Fleets are formed if they have a player incursion and they have a higher response time to invading roams as a result. Meanwhile they aren't sitting on thier arse waiting for the attack that usually never comes.
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-04-04 00:10:33 UTC
Really nice answers here. It maybe time to Get on EFT and then on Sisi

Standing in for Karn Dulake who was banned for saying bad words