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I hope no goons line in Arizona

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Dhorion Pyler
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-04-03 22:36:27 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
"Ignorance of the law excuses no one." (Ignorantia juris non excusat)

It's already against the law to do such things listed in that law in person or through any other media. That the internet isn't included is yet another feature of its newness. I believe there are people who would communicate such things as are listed in that bill, but I find it hard to believe civil people would object to the fact there are repercussions to those who do. In fact, I'd think it's comforting to know our civility is backed by legality; conversely, incivility is not.

Obviously, EVE attracts more than its share of people who wish to engage in such behavior. The "you can do what you want and not get in trouble" feature exists here to a large extent, but don't overlook the "and not get in trouble" part of that phrase. It infers if you do this stuff anywhere else you WILL get in trouble. If this were not well-known, you wouldn't find these sorts of people seeking refuge from the consequences of their actions here.

The "hip to the jive" publication you link to chose the word "Troll" for its headline. We still argue here about what trolling actually is, and you know that. Too bad the age old Henny Penny behavior isn't illegal; taking a leaf falling on your head to mean the sky is falling, then running around terrifying everyone else about it. You know. Like your post here.

I've always marvelled (awesome, dude) at how the ill-behaved ilk in our culture viewed the internet as a place they could practice their sordid behavior and be above social reproach, and the law. Now, it's just become funny how they're outraged that the law is finally catching up to them. They suddenly want things to be FAIR. How dumb is that?


You have to do a little more research there guy, as those laws don't do what you think they do. Verbal abuse is not regulated by any law. I can cuss you out all day long and when u swing and hit me, you go to jail and I laugh at you. What you can do is get a restraining order which again doesn't limit the speech, but limits behavior deemed to cause physical violence.

Bullying does not occur between adults as we are expected to take it or walk away. Children on the other hand do not have the option to walk away in most situations. This is the philosophy applied to harassing phone calls not the above mentioned.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-04-03 22:39:06 UTC
Hurrdurr they hate my freedom.

It's hilarious because Europe will probably copy this wonderful idea.
Vyl Vit
#23 - 2012-04-03 22:40:17 UTC
haysis wrote:
See the thing is, on most forums and FB stuff, theirs this little function called block, people need to learn to use it. America is turning into the land of ****** that need to have their hands held. And this sickens me. We dont need more of these bills being pushed through that are just a huge waste of time and money.

These arguments I find the most humorous. America has been turning into (fill in the blank) for the past 50 years. Talk to my grand parents you'll find it's been turning into (fill in the blank) for the previous 50 years! I've been waiting half a century now for it to turn into the one or the other. Any idea when this is going to happen? I can hear my grandson now, "You know, if it wasn't for (all the people I disagree with), America would be perfect! These (fill in the blank) are turning it into (fill in the blank.)"

Too funny. Get a clue.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
haysis
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-04-03 22:42:26 UTC
Kaelie Onren wrote:
haysis wrote:
Lol, I just finished reading that. America, gotta love it. all this "cyber-bullying" what a F**ing joke. kids these days need to HTFU so we don't have retarted laws like this wasting tax payers time and moeny.


I don't follow the logic. Bullying is not allowed in your schools. The rules of that community are enforced by the teachers and principals of the schools. So in this new community called the internet, who else but the government can enforce the same anit-harassment laws?

While in general I would agree that most people should HTFU, but if that means more snarky cynical crass douchebags on forums, then I'd rather them not.



They don't enforce it, that's the thing. if they did then the whole bullying movement would be dead in the water.

also Douchbages are everywhere, not just the internet., deal with it.
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-04-03 22:43:05 UTC
Good. People need to "htfu" and learn a little civility.
Vyl Vit
#26 - 2012-04-03 22:44:31 UTC
Dhorion Pyler wrote:
You have to do a little more research there guy, as those laws don't do what you think they do. Verbal abuse is not regulated by any law. I can cuss you out all day long and when u swing and hit me, you go to jail and I laugh at you. What you can do is get a restraining order which again doesn't limit the speech, but limits behavior deemed to cause physical violence.

Bullying does not occur between adults as we are expected to take it or walk away. Children on the other hand do not have the option to walk away in most situations. This is the philosophy applied to harassing phone calls not the above mentioned.


Au contraire mon ami. Au contraire. There is a thing called "offending morals". You can be arrested for offending someone's morals. All you have to do is call a cop. What you cite smacks of talking bad about your mother in a bar, taking a swing at someone and the cops arrest you both. Though, someone calling you bad names can't legally be responded to (no matter how you wish it were different) by punching them in the nose, had you called a cop and declared your morals were offended, you'd see something quite different.

Bullying? I can't believe you haven't heard of "Stand Your Ground Laws." You really need to get some air.

Nothing like Mom's Basement Lawyers.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
DonHel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-04-03 22:46:05 UTC
haysis wrote:
Lol, I just finished reading that. America, gotta love it. all this "cyber-bullying" what a F**ing joke. kids these days need to HTFU so we don't have retarted laws like this wasting tax payers time and moeny.


you mean like the money we wasted on your education?
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#28 - 2012-04-03 22:48:08 UTC
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:
Edit your post dude


This means that the Everyone in General Discussion will be going to jail as there is nothing but trolls here


Although if they created a jail for Eve online users and we could play EVE in our cells i dont think that most of the basement dwellers that make up the EVE community would mind all that much.


They are living without women anyway


Enjoy the game.
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-04-03 22:49:23 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
Enjoy the game.


Darn it! I just lost. THE GAME. Sad
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-04-03 22:49:45 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
"Ignorance of the law excuses no one." (Ignorantia juris non excusat)

It's already against the law to do such things listed in that law in person or through any other media. That the internet isn't included is yet another feature of its newness. I believe there are people who would communicate such things as are listed in that bill, but I find it hard to believe civil people would object to the fact there are repercussions to those who do. In fact, I'd think it's comforting to know our civility is backed by legality; conversely, incivility is not.

Obviously, EVE attracts more than its share of people who wish to engage in such behavior. The "you can do what you want and not get in trouble" feature exists here to a large extent, but don't overlook the "and not get in trouble" part of that phrase. It infers if you do this stuff anywhere else you WILL get in trouble. If this were not well-known, you wouldn't find these sorts of people seeking refuge from the consequences of their actions here.

The "hip to the jive" publication you link to chose the word "Troll" for its headline. We still argue here about what trolling actually is, and you know that. Too bad the age old Henny Penny behavior isn't illegal; taking a leaf falling on your head to mean the sky is falling, then running around terrifying everyone else about it. You know. Like your post here.

I've always marvelled (awesome, dude) at how the ill-behaved ilk in our culture viewed the internet as a place they could practice their sordid behavior and be above social reproach, and the law. Now, it's just become funny how they're outraged that the law is finally catching up to them. They suddenly want things to be FAIR. How dumb is that?


This post is pretty epic.. +1

Who's gonna quote for fail?
DonHel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-04-03 22:50:49 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
haysis wrote:
See the thing is, on most forums and FB stuff, theirs this little function called block, people need to learn to use it. America is turning into the land of ****** that need to have their hands held. And this sickens me. We dont need more of these bills being pushed through that are just a huge waste of time and money.

These arguments I find the most humorous. America has been turning into (fill in the blank) for the past 50 years. Talk to my grand parents you'll find it's been turning into (fill in the blank) for the previous 50 years! I've been waiting half a century now for it to turn into the one or the other. Any idea when this is going to happen? I can hear my grandson now, "You know, if it wasn't for (all the people I disagree with), America would be perfect! These (fill in the blank) are turning it into (fill in the blank.)"

Too funny. Get a clue.



I want to like this 10 times, lol
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-04-03 22:50:58 UTC
Dhorion Pyler wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
"Ignorance of the law excuses no one." (Ignorantia juris non excusat)

It's already against the law to do such things listed in that law in person or through any other media. That the internet isn't included is yet another feature of its newness. I believe there are people who would communicate such things as are listed in that bill, but I find it hard to believe civil people would object to the fact there are repercussions to those who do. In fact, I'd think it's comforting to know our civility is backed by legality; conversely, incivility is not.

Obviously, EVE attracts more than its share of people who wish to engage in such behavior. The "you can do what you want and not get in trouble" feature exists here to a large extent, but don't overlook the "and not get in trouble" part of that phrase. It infers if you do this stuff anywhere else you WILL get in trouble. If this were not well-known, you wouldn't find these sorts of people seeking refuge from the consequences of their actions here.

The "hip to the jive" publication you link to chose the word "Troll" for its headline. We still argue here about what trolling actually is, and you know that. Too bad the age old Henny Penny behavior isn't illegal; taking a leaf falling on your head to mean the sky is falling, then running around terrifying everyone else about it. You know. Like your post here.

I've always marvelled (awesome, dude) at how the ill-behaved ilk in our culture viewed the internet as a place they could practice their sordid behavior and be above social reproach, and the law. Now, it's just become funny how they're outraged that the law is finally catching up to them. They suddenly want things to be FAIR. How dumb is that?


You have to do a little more research there guy, as those laws don't do what you think they do. Verbal abuse is not regulated by any law. I can cuss you out all day long and when u swing and hit me, you go to jail and I laugh at you. What you can do is get a restraining order which again doesn't limit the speech, but limits behavior deemed to cause physical violence.

Bullying does not occur between adults as we are expected to take it or walk away. Children on the other hand do not have the option to walk away in most situations. This is the philosophy applied to harassing phone calls not the above mentioned.


We have a winner!
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#33 - 2012-04-03 22:52:45 UTC
Arizona; the North Korea of the USA.
haysis
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-04-03 22:53:00 UTC
DonHel wrote:
haysis wrote:
Lol, I just finished reading that. America, gotta love it. all this "cyber-bullying" what a F**ing joke. kids these days need to HTFU so we don't have retarted laws like this wasting tax payers time and moeny.


you mean like the money we wasted on your education?



I wish! Only if wasted that small of an amount of money.
Pulgy
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-04-03 22:57:00 UTC
Good ol' Arizona.
No range? No problem!   Join the Church of the Holy Blaster™ . A Hybrid religion.
Vyl Vit
#36 - 2012-04-03 23:08:38 UTC
Apollo-Moor wrote:
Dhorion Pyler wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
"Ignorance of the law excuses no one." (Ignorantia juris non excusat)

It's already against the law to do such things listed in that law in person or through any other media. That the internet isn't included is yet another feature of its newness. I believe there are people who would communicate such things as are listed in that bill, but I find it hard to believe civil people would object to the fact there are repercussions to those who do. In fact, I'd think it's comforting to know our civility is backed by legality; conversely, incivility is not.

Obviously, EVE attracts more than its share of people who wish to engage in such behavior. The "you can do what you want and not get in trouble" feature exists here to a large extent, but don't overlook the "and not get in trouble" part of that phrase. It infers if you do this stuff anywhere else you WILL get in trouble. If this were not well-known, you wouldn't find these sorts of people seeking refuge from the consequences of their actions here.

The "hip to the jive" publication you link to chose the word "Troll" for its headline. We still argue here about what trolling actually is, and you know that. Too bad the age old Henny Penny behavior isn't illegal; taking a leaf falling on your head to mean the sky is falling, then running around terrifying everyone else about it. You know. Like your post here.

I've always marvelled (awesome, dude) at how the ill-behaved ilk in our culture viewed the internet as a place they could practice their sordid behavior and be above social reproach, and the law. Now, it's just become funny how they're outraged that the law is finally catching up to them. They suddenly want things to be FAIR. How dumb is that?


You have to do a little more research there guy, as those laws don't do what you think they do. Verbal abuse is not regulated by any law. I can cuss you out all day long and when u swing and hit me, you go to jail and I laugh at you. What you can do is get a restraining order which again doesn't limit the speech, but limits behavior deemed to cause physical violence.

Bullying does not occur between adults as we are expected to take it or walk away. Children on the other hand do not have the option to walk away in most situations. This is the philosophy applied to harassing phone calls not the above mentioned.


We have a winner!

I think you missed my response.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Sobach
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-04-03 23:23:54 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Au contraire mon ami. Au contraire. There is a thing called "offending morals". You can be arrested for offending someone's morals. All you have to do is call a cop. What you cite smacks of talking bad about your mother in a bar, taking a swing at someone and the cops arrest you both. Though, someone calling you bad names can't legally be responded to (no matter how you wish it were different) by punching them in the nose, had you called a cop and declared your morals were offended, you'd see something quite different.

Bullying? I can't believe you haven't heard of "Stand Your Ground Laws." You really need to get some air.

Nothing like Mom's Basement Lawyers.


Where do you live? I'd like to know so I'll never set foot in that place. Also, would like to see the actual "offending moral" statute you're talking about, assuming you're living in a western nation. There are so many things wrong with even the idea of such a law I don't know where to begin.

Also, do I get to call the cops on you because your post have offended my morals?
Twulf
Purple Void Corporation
LinkNet
#38 - 2012-04-03 23:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Twulf
Ai Shun wrote:
That type of nonsense makes me so glad I do not live in the United States of America.


Yea because living in the United States of America is "hard". Living here is the great and anyone that says other wise is either too lazy or too stupid to understand how great the US is.

I was borne and raised in Detroit, MI as a fat white kid. Growing up is not hard people, its called life. Ever had a gun put in your face because you have cool looking shoes and someone at school wants them? I might be a bit racist but I am "normal" as an adult if normal is working, having a house, cars and toys for the weekend, friends and family.

How can words hurt you? So what if someone is mean to you or does not like you? Put your head down, do what you go to do and move on with your life. Its not easy but who said it was easy?

Do you think bullying stops when you leave school? Yea right, dickheads are everywhere, end of story. Let's put this silly nonsense to rest and get back to internet spaceships and pew pew.

Life is too short to worry about stupid bully ****, have fun, live it your way and die, that is all that is required. That is what I have learned in 30 years on this planet with you other assholes.
Aggressive Nutmeg
#39 - 2012-04-03 23:40:13 UTC
Ghoest wrote:
http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/arizona-bill-could-criminalize-internet-trolling-184547052.html

I hope none of us live there really.

I think you'll find most of the civilised world already has laws in place similar to this. It's really not that earth-shattering. This law is a good idea but they do need to remove the words annoy or offend:

It is unlawful for any person, with intent to terrify, intimidate, threaten, harass, annoy or offend, to use ANY ELECTRONIC OR DIGITAL DEVICE and use any obscene, lewd or profane language or suggest any lewd or lascivious act, or threaten to inflict physical harm to the person or property of any person.

Any time I turn the TV on during prime time I am annoyed at and offended by how stupid every show is. Does this mean I can get all the TV executives sent to prison?

Every time I visit the Eve forums I am annoyed at and offended by how illiterate most of the posters are. Are you in trouble with the law because you offend my appreciation of the English language?

So yes, the current wording might be a bit broad but I agree with the general idea behind this law.

The Internet has been a sad, nasty place for probably the last 10 years. As soon as the technology became popular with the masses, the existing community of academics and enthusiasts was drowned in a sea of criminal activity, scams, porrnn, mindless blogs, conspiracy theory crap, religious nut jobs and social media.

You can moan about your freedom of speech to your heart's content, but if you're only using this freedom to talk nonsense and abuse others, you're far from being free. What is that so-called freedom really worth?

Sadly, the majority of humans need laws to get them to behave like civilised creatures.

It would be nice to get some intelligence, class and respectability back online. I remember the old days quite fondly.

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
Pyrus Octavius
Flat Earth Believers
#40 - 2012-04-03 23:59:31 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Pyrus Octavius wrote:
If this is true, and it is not itself some sort of troll, then I could not see how this could be prosecuted without being subjected to appeal. Trolling in itself is subjective, and in a fine line case, would cause difficulties in the distinction of being properly interpreted, because everyone's tastes are different. What some people find distasteful others don't. The EvE community itself is a test case for the different attitudes towards whats offensive and what's not. I could see this ending up in the Supreme Court, and eventually being over turned due to constitutional issues.
Trolling wasn't mentioned in the bill. It's in the headline. A guy spray painting fascist symbols on a synogogue wouldn't find it objectionable. The ones offended would. Guess who the courts listen to? The EVE community isn't a dichotomy of real society. And, if you think this Supreme Court would overturn a law like this, you don't know THIS Supreme Court.

There's a lot of wishful thinking going on here. RE: another post. No lawyer worth his salt would bother taking a "trolling on the internet" case. And, as I said before, if you think the country you're in has no laws like this, you're very mistaken.


I think you misunderstand. I meant the poster was trolling with the article, not that the article explicitly is a troll.

What you are speaking about in terms of the fascist symbols constitutes a hate crime. So society in general has found this to be objectionable. I think your argument here is a fallacy because the two scenarios don't equate at all. As for the EvE not being a dichotomy, you are right. Because a dichotomy would indicate there are only two equal view points to this scenario. There are not two equal view points to this scenario, and that is because this community is a slice of many different societies consisting of different socioeconomic, cultural, and spiritual differences. With that, you can bet you will find a plethora of different view points on the enforceability of this lame law, which if you have read through the thread already this has been clearly stated. I do believe a Constitutional Lawyer will have a field day with this, and be able to convince the Supreme Court there is a 1st amendment right to being an asshat... not matter how much they don't like it.