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Autism and EVE Online
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Hito-Shura
Caldari Fire Demons University
#81 - 2012-04-03 13:20:38 UTC
Cailais wrote:


*(A quick online search tells me that World Autism Awareness Day was on Monday, which supports the above analysis).

C.



Wait. It was? When was this? Where was I when this happened?
Ghoest
#82 - 2012-04-03 13:31:00 UTC
Hito-Shura wrote:
Cailais wrote:


*(A quick online search tells me that World Autism Awareness Day was on Monday, which supports the above analysis).

C.



Wait. It was? When was this? Where was I when this happened?


I think you were busy counting stuff.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#83 - 2012-04-03 13:31:50 UTC
The people who use language such as this are just appropriating things that are 'different' to them since they are MUCH easier to assign a negative value to them.

It's the easy way to insult, and gets down to what a person IS (suffering from autism, gay (as if it is new or something))...usually some quality that is inherent and cannot be changed.

It is a quick and easy tool of the weak-minded. But then we ARE talking about the Goons here.........Roll

It's been like this since ancient history and mankind is no better, not a whit.

Best thing is to just NOT CARE. Memorize your new mantra:

"Carebears don't care so much they don't come to your space and they don't harass you and indeed they don't even fight back. That is the ultimate don't care and there isn't anything you can do, short of dying of starvation next to a pack of Cheetos, that will demostrate a don't care level beyond that of the carebear." Smile

***
Skorpynekomimi
#84 - 2012-04-03 13:32:18 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
If you want to bat this ball around...I raised an eight-year old with Asperger's to (he's now) 22 years old. He was an honor grad in high school. Made the Dean's List in undergrad. He's now in graduate-level physics.

When I first became a parental authority "over" this kid, I was told he was high-functioning autistic, with Asperger's Syndrome. But, I'd raised two other children to adulthood by then, so I figured I'd had some experience with kids with which to make better than average observations. It wasn't long before it dawned on me the kid didn't have a disorder. He was just different. He processes information differently than "normal" people. And, most normal people today find it difficult to process information at all.

What is stunning is his memory and recall ability. He can quote me exactly from the age he was eight to today. I hate it when kids say, "But, you said..." It's even worse when they get it right. Getting it right EVERY TIME is a bit unnerving. However, it has to be marked if someone is 100% accurate in recall. Another thing I noticed is he didn't require a lot of background to dive into some rather deep subjects, which involved juggling half a dozen or more bits of information, including the plethora of extrapolations with variables that ensue. "Normal" kids required a bit of a refresher to bring them back up to speed on what was previously discussed in order to progress with a discussion.

(Discussing what? Oh, simple things like: Is the physical universe comprised entirely of waves, and do our misapprehensions create in our imaginations the existence of "matter?" Where in the universe does consciousness actually reside? What exactly is occuring during the cognitive process? Simple stuff...are humans eternally entrapped in self-imposed ignorance using warfare as a passtime as a result; a fear-based compensation?)

During his public school days he was eternally bullied and picked on. The "normal" kids targeted him early and constantly. This, of course, gave me ample ground to cover "how the self-doubting, herd mentality drives the behavior of individuals being initiated into a self-willed competitive society when their nature as a social species is cooperative, and how that is the root of abherrent behavior, such as putting others down to elevate themselves." The good stuff.

He's unable to read facial expressions and vocal inflections and how they signify an added meaning to what people say. If you say something sarcastically, he takes it literally. Of course, some things like smiling aren't a problem. Figuring out if someone's angry is a bit more difficult. Oddly enough, while being ill-treated by the average American schoolchild, they always smiled. That could get confusing. What amazes me most about him is he harbors no ill will toward anyone regardless of it all. He's literally the nicest person you'd ever want to meet. Though, he's learned his lesson well from me, he doesn't have to take any crap off of anyone. Since he's six-foot four and weighs a muscular 250 pounds, I wouldn't want to be the one on whom he finally unloads that right-cross I taught him. Ow.

I wish I could agree that "ignorance" covers this behavior you see. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. This sort of aggression is used as a social ladder in this society. There are cheers and pats on the back...knowing lulz...as it's being done. I suggest you not concern yourself with it. Enjoy the game. Let the stupidity roll down your back, as you seem to do. They aren't gonna change for themselves. They certainly won't change for you.


Quoted for wisdom. It's only a disorder from the neurotypical point of view. They just don't like anything challenging their worldview, and can't accept that people are different.
Also, 'normal' people are assholes, especially on the internet.
However, this is EVE. You don't like what they're saying? Track them down and kill them. Find out where they mission or mine or haul, and blow up their ship. Or hire mercenaries to ****-wardec their corp and siege their PoS.

I have (relatively mild) aspergers myself. EVE is perfectly suited to my mindset. I can do repetitive tasks, sort things, and crunch spreadsheets and numbers all day.
And being a game, things make sense! Do X, Y happens reliably!

Economic PVP
Hito-Shura
Caldari Fire Demons University
#85 - 2012-04-03 13:37:19 UTC
Ghoest wrote:
Hito-Shura wrote:
Cailais wrote:


*(A quick online search tells me that World Autism Awareness Day was on Monday, which supports the above analysis).

C.



Wait. It was? When was this? Where was I when this happened?


I think you were busy counting stuff.


You'd think that but I don't remember what I was doing yesterday, even.

It wasn't counting stuff...maybe it was my space laundry...
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2012-04-03 13:44:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie-A Tassik
Kattshiro wrote:
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
[quote=Kattshiro]
So mercury isn't a neurotoxin now, zippy? Thimerosal did not contain mercury?

Of course, I have to say the exact cause cited... because Rule #1 of doing the idiot roll is to never argue facts, never bring up facts, just be condescending.... like you know what you are talking about, which you don't.

But the doses were too low!

Cause, you know, one year old baby resistance to neurotoxins is honestly probably higher than a full grown mans! Just saying. Ya know. It just makes sense!

Of course, they still stopped using it. But you know, a bunch of people said it was dangerous, and then the medical industry stopped using it.

My mamma always said, were there is smoke, there certainly ain't fire! Anyone who tells you different, they probably is lying to you!

Oh, and zippy, vaccines in general.... you know, not nearly safe as you think. Normal product liability is suspended for vaccines in the United States. You want to know what *BLEEP* they replaced it with? Use google.



Cool story bro. I mean it is a story.

Also names not Zippy, Champ.


Thanks for arguing the facts. Oh wait, I meant doing the idiot roll. Good slave! Master give good slave a cookie!
Josef Djugashvilis
#87 - 2012-04-03 13:44:40 UTC
Elena Melkan wrote:
Remember, you can always ignore people who offend you. This is just a game.




Personally speaking, I would never refer to someone, even in a game as an 'aspie' 'sperg' etc.

I do understand for for some it makes them feel that they are part of a 'cool tough gang' with their own special argot.

Is there a corp/alliance in Eve which seems to get off on this 'tough guy' talk?

I find it childish amd spiteful rather than offensive as such.

Having seen such terms used so often in thse forums, I have pretty much come to ignore it.

This is not a signature.
Steveir
Hagukure
#88 - 2012-04-03 14:17:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Steveir
My wife who works with autistic kids has a saying that we are all on the autistic spectrum somewhere :)

As for the trolls, they just like using hurtful words. However, just remember its a word. Call anyone in real life a carebear and they will think you are nuts, call them that in Eve and get wardecced :)
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#89 - 2012-04-03 14:26:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
My guess is that autism and especially Asperger's have been in the media a lot lately. Especially Asperger's can be seen as an extreme of traits that every person recognizes in themselves and others, so it has become a sort of catchphrase for a particular personality trait. I do not find this very nice, not to the people with actual Asperger's diagnosis, and not to the people called so for no reason. Maybe it's because of my RL profession (related to mental health), but I generally do not like using medical diagnoses for any other purpose than their actual use. But there's people in the world and in EVE who don't give a damn about "nice", unfortunately.

I'd recommend report/petition the usage whenever you see it. Unlike some people want to present it, petitioning someone for something you find offensive or nasty does not mean you are "taking it too seriously" or whatever. You do not even have to be particularly upset about something to consider it something you'd rather not have as part of the communication culture of a game you enjoy.
Janus Nightmare
Exploding Kitties
#90 - 2012-04-03 14:51:25 UTC
Shogun Archer wrote:
I wouldn't let it bother you, I know that sounds trite, but it's really the best thing you can do. And actually, being in my 20's in the 90's. I can recall the use of the word "gay" as meaning something lame etc... Even though it sounds like it was slur of gay people, most people I knew were VERY liberal minded that used it and hung out with gay ppl quite often.

Thing is, I just don't think you can train or force people to use only language that is unoffensive to everyone. There is always going to be something offensive to someone.

Best thing you can do is block em, report em if you find it necessary (if they are personally attacking you), or best yet, ignore them.

Btw, your portrait is awesome.


heh. years and years ago I played Day of Defeat religiously, and when I was admin on a few servers one of the things that always would result in a kick was players using the word gay in a derogatory manner. Admittedly we had some pretty strict rules because the servers were supposed to be family friendly, and they were quite popular. But being gay, using that term in the game always got under my skin.

Now, however, being older and wiser, I realized I just don't give a **** anymore. It tells me more about the person who uses terms like that to intentionally be offensive than their silence would, so these days I figure what the hell, if you're going to be a bigot, I'd rather know it right off the bat.

As far as autistic being used in an offensive manner, however, that's pretty much moving beyond ignorance into downright hate. I don't know that much can be done about it unless the GM's make a rule about it, but seriously, we've gotten to the point of mocking medical conditions now?

I mean, I laugh when people call me a gimp because of my arthritis (now gone after knee replacement surgery) but it's only ever said in good, clean fun. Mocking autism is just plain mean, however, and frankly I wouldn't mind seeing the GM's take a stand on the issue. Would like it, in fact.
Andrea Griffin
#91 - 2012-04-03 15:05:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Griffin
Pyrus Octavius wrote:
Some people are just d*cks. This game breeds so much hate. It disgusts me.
It isn't the game itself - it is the relative anonymity of the Internet. You can see this behavior changing all over the place and not just in Eve. People who weren't raised with a decent moral compass and sense of accountability will act as has been described in this thread when they are able to hide behind a mask.

We could go on forever about what is causing it - is it society, bad parenting, a vague "just the times we live in" - but in general dicks are going to be dicks whenever they think they can get away with it.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Bob Bedala
#92 - 2012-04-03 15:22:37 UTC
About two weeks ago a student in the UK was jailed for 56 days for making racist tweets on Twitter (an equally public forum in legal terms, I would expect).
Those tweets fall under the UK's hate crime laws;

"Hate crimes are any crimes that are targeted at a person because of hostility or prejudice towards that person’s:
- disability
- race or ethnicity
- religion or belief
- sexual orientation
- transgender identity"

Recognise a few of them in the EVE universe? If I was CCP, I would be worried.


The UK is by no means alone in establishing those kind of laws. I understand that if you were raised in the US, under the age of 21 and hang out on certain internet forums you may believe that that kind of behaviour is acceptable. The person you are talking to may not have had the same upbringing and may find it offensive.

The solution is not "oh they are idiots, ignore them". My yardstick is, if someone said that in front of my 12 year-old nephew & niece, what would I think? They have to learn that 50% (I guesstimate) of the player base does not share their upbringing or cultural values, and engage in smacktalk (we have a fine tradition of ****-taking in the UK but it is not like US smack-talk, I have played FPS on Xbox for years, I know the diff). Also they may be talking to a child.

The closest analogy to the OP is the 80's UK slang of calling people mongs, spacks or joeys -- essentially mocking people because of a disability. You can ask Ricky Jervais how well that translates in modern Britain (it doesn't). Call someone the N word in certain areas of London and you have a high probability of spending the night in hospital, I don't care what colour you are.


Cultural differences are one thing, but CCP has legal liability in multiple territories so has a moral as well as legal responsibility to stamp this out.

Ultimately, what would the game lose as a result? Not much, if anything. What would it gain? A lot.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#93 - 2012-04-03 15:25:15 UTC
Bob Bedala wrote:
we have a fine tradition of ****-taking in the UK


QFT

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Bob Bedala
#94 - 2012-04-03 15:32:37 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
Bob Bedala wrote:
we have a fine tradition of ****-taking in the UK


QFT


"Extracting the urine" does not fall under the above law.
Andrea Griffin
#95 - 2012-04-03 15:34:27 UTC
Bob Bedala wrote:
About two weeks ago a student in the UK was jailed for 56 days for making racist tweets on Twitter (an equally public forum in legal terms, I would expect). [...] I understand that if you were raised in the US, under the age of 21 and hang out on certain internet forums you may believe that that kind of behaviour is acceptable.
Actually, it doesn't matter if you were raised in the US. Acting like an ass isn't acceptable. We just don't feel the need for the government to censor our speech. It opens the door to a lot of future government abuse. Hate speech could eventually start to cover "anything negative about the government", for example; and don't say that it hasn't happened before. It has. Even in the USA, despite our much-valued freedom of speech.

Even if in the US we don't get thrown in jail for spewing that kind of crap - there's enough people in society that will look at you and say, "Dude, what the hell? What is wrong with you? Grow up." But that only works if people can respond directly to you. As I said above, when you can hide behind some make up internet name somewhere, a **** is going to be a **** no matter what.

I don't know if I would want to change that, though - at least not through legislation. Legislation can't affect the way people think, it only punishes them for what they do (if they get caught). If you want to really fix the problem then you need to change the underlying behavior and thinking process. Laws don't do that - unless you want to start state-run brain-washing camps, and that's a door I never want to open.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Andrea Griffin
#96 - 2012-04-03 15:34:50 UTC
I managed to double post, derp.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#97 - 2012-04-03 15:36:51 UTC
Bob Bedala wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:
Bob Bedala wrote:
we have a fine tradition of ****-taking in the UK


QFT


"Extracting the urine" does not fall under the above law.



Well I guess the bathroom pub bandit in Birmingham can have a sigh of relief

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Zixie Draco
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#98 - 2012-04-03 15:37:30 UTC



The "ohforpeetssakes" award thread of the day

Would you like a kitten?

Bob Bedala
#99 - 2012-04-03 15:41:12 UTC
Andrea Griffin wrote:
We just don't feel the need for the government to censor our speech. It opens the door to a lot of future government abuse.


UK laws regarding what you can say on broadcast media are more "free" than the US (I assume you are referring to the US), so, no

Andrea Griffin wrote:
Hate speech could eventually start to cover "anything negative about the government"


Could, if, but, maybe, tinfoil hat -- no

Andrea Griffin wrote:
Legislation can't affect the way people think, it only punishes them for what they do (if they get caught)


Yes it can, it makes people think "why is this wrong?". Ask another twitter guy who profusely apologised once the Police turned up at his door and gave him a warning

Despite that, I do agree with your overall points. But they are tangental to the main thrust of my argument
Bob Bedala
#100 - 2012-04-03 15:43:10 UTC
Zixie Draco wrote:



The "ohforpeetssakes" award thread of the day


Lawyers don't really see that as an acceptable counter Blink