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PL gets 15trillion isk banned in recent RMT bannings

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Taresh Quickfingers
Doomheim
#181 - 2012-03-31 21:58:53 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:


I can't decide which of the trolls in these quotes I like better.

Pirate
Myz Toyou
Nekkid Inc.
#182 - 2012-03-31 22:05:08 UTC
SirMille wrote:
Sanantha wrote:
as wrong as a Real Money Transaction is, how can CCP definitively prove one took place?


There will always be people screaming that they're a false positive regardless of whether or not they are. There are also likely cases who feel like they are innocent but would be effectively unable to prove it, it's unfortunate. For example:

Quote:
I took my negative isk hit because short of providing Sreegs with a full audit of my RL financials I would be unable to prove my own innocence. I don't think there's a point to me filing a petition when my isk clearly came from an RMTer, no matter how hard I screamed that I didn't pay real cash for it short of handing records that I am barely comfortable with giving to my accountant. Instead of taking loans and applying to win prizes from shady individuals I'm going on a strict plex4isk diet only from now on and hope that will appease our wildly-cackling-while-snorting-wasabi overlord. I already bought a bunch of plex so I hope the transaction reversal isn't followed by a ban. On the upside I don't have to pay the loan back now.



Are you a false/positive with your minus 1.5bil wallet ?
Taihbea
Doomheim
#183 - 2012-03-31 22:05:14 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
2D34DLY4U wrote:
Kytoth wrote:
Do you really think they manually looked at alliances/corps/chars? I'm pretty sure they ran some DB script looking for suspicious transfers, which are pretty hard to define, and then just removed all the isk said script flagged / banned flagged accounts.


IF this is the way they did it then I am very much against this crap.

Large alliances with thousands of active people selling ships, contracts and all sorts of services cannot be suddenly hammered to the ground with huge negative isk accounts because some people used rmt isk to buy stuff from them and some dev is using a dumb db script.

As much as I support Sreegs efforts to clean the world from rmt if this is the way it is done we are harming people that play the game instead of harming those that cheat. In a sense it is an even worse way for the cheaters to destroy the game if they are able to provoke this kind of random havoc.

I would expect someone HUMAN and WITH A BRAIN to look closely at the list of bannable accounts that comes out of these scripts and THINK FOR THIRTY SECONDS about implications and trying to understand WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON. CCP should investigate stuff, not randomly ban people.

I may be wrong but if I have to choose between Shamis being a cheater and Sreegs being trigger happy and dumb, I'll go with the one that has more Alliance Tournament wins. There's some love for the game right there.


CCP seems to take matters like this pretty seriously. I think you can safely assume that any implicating data generated would be investigated before penalties were assessed.



I hope this was a troll.....Oops

CCP has ignored it for years, now they suddenly start banning? Interesting timing don't you think? When did they spend 10 minutes addressing it the past?
Just after they get mud in their face due to their favorite Bee having a senior moment in front of the camera.

So...not only is the Hive trying Brute-force metagaming, but CCP is gonna give it a try too?


"CCP, I know, lets out one of the big RMT groups so that we can deflect attention away from our abject foolishness at backing a failed leader"




Normal people operate within RL boundaries. Game or not I am who I am. I know right from wrong.

CCP gives you a tool which you use to have fun. As a grown up you should understand what responsibility does it carry. Abuse of any kind is wrong. You can be a hardcore ************ in eve and it's fine BUT when you start biting the hand that feeds you (CCP gives you a game to play for those dumbfucks that don't get the metaphore) you gonna get a ***** slap.

Edit: Personal attack removed, CCP Phantom
SirMille
Sigma Kid Protection Services
#184 - 2012-03-31 22:25:02 UTC
Myz Toyou wrote:
SirMille wrote:
Sanantha wrote:
as wrong as a Real Money Transaction is, how can CCP definitively prove one took place?


There will always be people screaming that they're a false positive regardless of whether or not they are. There are also likely cases who feel like they are innocent but would be effectively unable to prove it, it's unfortunate. For example:

Quote:
I took my negative isk hit because short of providing Sreegs with a full audit of my RL financials I would be unable to prove my own innocence. I don't think there's a point to me filing a petition when my isk clearly came from an RMTer, no matter how hard I screamed that I didn't pay real cash for it short of handing records that I am barely comfortable with giving to my accountant. Instead of taking loans and applying to win prizes from shady individuals I'm going on a strict plex4isk diet only from now on and hope that will appease our wildly-cackling-while-snorting-wasabi overlord. I already bought a bunch of plex so I hope the transaction reversal isn't followed by a ban. On the upside I don't have to pay the loan back now.



Are you a false/positive with your minus 1.5bil wallet ?


Short of handing over my financial records would you believe me if I said I was? I'm just hoping the damage is done and to move on while religiously keeping my nose absolutely clean.
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#185 - 2012-03-31 22:33:21 UTC
new flat new teeth new life

No sig.
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#186 - 2012-03-31 22:41:04 UTC
RMTers can sell a new service to infect enemy corps.
gfldex
#187 - 2012-03-31 22:41:16 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I can't decide which of the trolls in these quotes I like better.


Please keep in mind that 90% of all trolls believe they are as sane as you and me.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#188 - 2012-03-31 22:50:25 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:


So I would have expected PL to be filthy-rich without any illegal isk bought. I wouldn't have been surprised if they even had been banned for having tons of botted isk - but PL buying isk?

Sounds odd. Maybe their contracts were paid for with dirty isk?


When you sell isk, you get banned. If your alliance wallet character got caught for RMT selling 100B and has 15T positive isk balance and gets banned, you just lost your alliance 15T. At least that is how I understand it. It is just a 15T net isk lost, most is positive isk trapped on a banned character but some are negative isk accounts.

Also how I understand Sreeg's policy is that if you RMT isk on an alliance reimbursement character, then just giving that character a negative wallet is not enough, you have to remove the dirty isk that was distributed to members who may have been unaware. Or else I could use a burner alt for RMT and station trade the isk to my main cleanly. This sounds a bit scary to me so I could easily be wrong. Sreegs knows what he is doing so if he wishes to clarify whatever he says is correct.

Oh and If I had 15T I'd be tempted to RMT. If you RMT at the crazy low price of $5 USD per 1B, that's $75,000 USD. But then again, I'm a happy vet, not a bitter vet and I still like playing so I would never do it.
JusFooling Around
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#189 - 2012-03-31 23:50:55 UTC  |  Edited by: JusFooling Around
Before fanfest, CCP memtioned in the news that about 1500 accounts were being investigated related to bot activity.

I think it was a neat move to not announce any action until after they collected the money from so many perps at fanfest!

Sreegs, I am going to trust you will properly place your loyalty with the one who signs your paycheck and your employer will provide the leadership and management necessary to be sure all employees who have left behind their game loyalties as they moved into the more adult world of work. It would be a shame for a player with a previous in game player relationship with you to believe you would let a rule get bent a little and you ended up being fired and losing your paycheck.

CCP, thank you for moving against rule breakers!

Please make this a daily activity instead of a grandstanding action every few years. I forget how long ago it was was when you banned 3000 accounts at once and we've barely heard anything since then as we all have seen and reported obvious BOT activities.

Please set up stings with fake sites offering to buy (most important) and sell isk/ships /mods. Crush the bogus accounts set up to buy large amounts of ISK, mods and ships for resale and search it out to find the related accounts and crush them. Smack the accounts of players who are just wanting to puff up their accounts buying ISK , mods or a ship or two. Keep an eye on them for a renewal of such bad behavior later on, then eventually crush those who cannot learn from their mistakes.

Use your ability to create a year old account to sell them ISK which has an identifier embedded which will turn the ISK into melted snowballs the first time it's transfered from the illegal seller.

Bite the bullet and drop your prices below their break-even point until the ISK sellers go out of business. Or drop the price a little and throw in some bonus ammo, or one off shuttles, or Cheat Busters t-shirts for avatars. Put something with the purchase of a plex which the cheaters cannot match while making it uncomfortable for anyone buying illegal plex.

Tie down isk transfers from new accounts, like a max per a set period of time which increases each month for a the first year, but make any amount possible with a fast track petition where legit transfers can be vetted and happen in seconds.

It is just so hard to believe we players can see so much cheating and also see so little done about it. Turn that around, will ya!?!?

These are just some quick ideas which may be full of issues, but your team of people being paid to come up with good ideas transparent and seamless to players, but which could establish a pattern of rule breaking are quite possible to develop. Make the players feel the rulles are a level playing ground for all to follow. The rest of the game is horribly skewed to those with an advantage of more skills, larger corps/alliances - but at least make who has to follow the rules a level playing field.
Epiphaniess
Verboten Technologies
#190 - 2012-03-31 23:51:45 UTC
What I think, probably happened is that PL is a mercenary alliance and suck take contracts form all sort so Alliances and corporations that pay them in isk for mercenary work. And also pay them protection money, rental moneys for space and such.

Probably a good amount of the isk they got this way was dirty, came form dirty corps, or dirty sources and PL got hit pretty hard as CCP/Sreegs cleans out all this dirty money. That and not all the 15T was from the Alliance wallet, from what I can tell from reading things. Is that 15T was the total amount about that was removed from all members with in the Alliance as well as Corp, and Alliance wallets.

Now PL the Alliance was mostly not dirty there were some members with in the Alliance that were dirty and they probably spread their isk around, to other members to the Corps and the Alliance wallet. For many reasons, as well as trying to laundry the dirty isk. And since CCP/Sreegs new policy of removing all dirty assets from not only the individual players as well as the Alliance as a whole, PL got hit hard. There will probably be other Alliances and Crops that get hit hard as well in the following days and weeks, as CCP new Banning and removing dirty assets policy hits home.

I personally see no problem with this. We all new Large Alliances were getting a benefit from all the RMTing/botting that was going on in their ranks and were not really do anything about but instead trying to play dumb. Well now they are going to pay for it.
Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2012-03-31 23:55:13 UTC
>1 or 2 false positives

Sounds like it's just a system that doesn't allow appeals.

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green
JusFooling Around
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#192 - 2012-04-01 00:02:14 UTC
Sreegs already told one player to petition if the player thought a mistake had occurred - sounds appealing to me
Epiphaniess
Verboten Technologies
#193 - 2012-04-01 00:05:10 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
>1 or 2 false positives

Sounds like it's just a system that doesn't allow appeals.


Or CCP is extremely careful about whom they Ban for RMT.

I personally will believe CCP over anyone claiming they are innocent, for I am sure CCP takes this seriously and does not want to net in the innocent with the guilty.
Llyona
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#194 - 2012-04-01 00:09:49 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:
Sanantha wrote:
as wrong as a Real Money Transaction is, how can CCP definitively prove one took place?

voodoo i tell you

or following the money trail


Following the money trail isn't always conclusive.

I recall an event 5 years ago where I gave my wife a small fortune in WoW gold (nearly 10,000g) to help her out.

Within a few days Blizzard banned my own and my wife's accounts for "manipulating the WoW market by selling gold".

I kept rebutting the action and Blizzard refused to reverse their decision, despite the fact that both accounts were obviously owned by me, since I was paying for both of them.

I can only hope CCP isn't following a similar procedure.

EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#195 - 2012-04-01 00:14:33 UTC
I got banned during Unholy Rage even though my account was expired at the time, but hey I got it unbanned quick enough so nbd.
Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#196 - 2012-04-01 00:28:30 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
I got banned during Unholy Rage even though my account was expired at the time, but hey I got it unbanned quick enough so nbd.


This sort of thing is worrying to me. I put a lot of effort into EVE and if I got banned by some script for suspicious behavior like donating isk to IRL friends, I'd be pretty pissed off.

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#197 - 2012-04-01 00:28:39 UTC
Taihbea wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
2D34DLY4U wrote:
Kytoth wrote:
Do you really think they manually looked at alliances/corps/chars? I'm pretty sure they ran some DB script looking for suspicious transfers, which are pretty hard to define, and then just removed all the isk said script flagged / banned flagged accounts.


IF this is the way they did it then I am very much against this crap.

Large alliances with thousands of active people selling ships, contracts and all sorts of services cannot be suddenly hammered to the ground with huge negative isk accounts because some people used rmt isk to buy stuff from them and some dev is using a dumb db script.

As much as I support Sreegs efforts to clean the world from rmt if this is the way it is done we are harming people that play the game instead of harming those that cheat. In a sense it is an even worse way for the cheaters to destroy the game if they are able to provoke this kind of random havoc.

I would expect someone HUMAN and WITH A BRAIN to look closely at the list of bannable accounts that comes out of these scripts and THINK FOR THIRTY SECONDS about implications and trying to understand WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON. CCP should investigate stuff, not randomly ban people.

I may be wrong but if I have to choose between Shamis being a cheater and Sreegs being trigger happy and dumb, I'll go with the one that has more Alliance Tournament wins. There's some love for the game right there.


CCP seems to take matters like this pretty seriously. I think you can safely assume that any implicating data generated would be investigated before penalties were assessed.



I hope this was a troll.....Oops

CCP has ignored it for years, now they suddenly start banning? Interesting timing don't you think? When did they spend 10 minutes addressing it the past?
Just after they get mud in their face due to their favorite Bee having a senior moment in front of the camera.

So...not only is the Hive trying Brute-force metagaming, but CCP is gonna give it a try too?


"CCP, I know, lets out one of the big RMT groups so that we can deflect attention away from our abject foolishness at backing a failed leader"




This is the issue which you're to stupid to see.
Normal people operate within RL boundaries. Game or not I am who I am. I know right from wrong.

CCP gives you a tool which you use to have fun. As a grown up you should understand what responsibility does it carry. Abuse of any kind is wrong. You can be a hardcore ************ in eve and it's fine BUT when you start biting the hand that feeds you (CCP gives you a game to play for those dumbfucks that don't get the metaphore) you gonna get a ***** slap.

Pretty much you proved your immaturity to handle freedom and now it will be restricted for the sake of general audience you stupid ****. There's no one to blame but yourself. Idiot.



Which real life boundarys are we talking about? The ones you crossed by attacking me personally, rather than my statement?

If you would like to discuss maturity, why not refute the argument, rather than attack the person behind the argument? Clearly you need to go back look the word up again. Oops


Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Rory Orlenard
Eve Pilots Revolutionary Army
#198 - 2012-04-01 00:28:50 UTC
Chiggy W wrote:
Lesson for today kids?

DON"T BUY isk you dirty buggers, and don't accept merc contract to save crumbling empires from those that are "known" to bot and/or RMT.

Grab some more popcorn, here we go again. Pirate


I haven't logged in to play for awhile and have a question. Before i quit playing on a regular basis i used to hunt and report highsec
RMTers and found more then a hand full - more then a hand and toes full actually . CCP removed them after i submitted documentation on thier activities.

Are you saying that PL got punished cause they took isk from xdeathx ..who everyone knew was botting ?
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#199 - 2012-04-01 00:37:16 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
I got banned during Unholy Rage even though my account was expired at the time, but hey I got it unbanned quick enough so nbd.


This sort of thing is worrying to me. I put a lot of effort into EVE and if I got banned by some script for suspicious behavior like donating isk to IRL friends, I'd be pretty pissed off.


I'd recommend saving the worrying for if something actually happens. :)

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Rubix Khamsi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#200 - 2012-04-01 00:45:20 UTC
wanna bet CCP has not locked this thread yet because they wanna make an example of PL?