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Eve Radio Midnight Tonight: This week in review, with Trebor, Seleene, Two Step and... The Mittani

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Zirise
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2012-03-31 03:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Zirise
Allandi wrote:
when he got drunk and attempted to bully someone into suicide.


If you can't differentiate between a drunken 'ha hah' gone wrong and a genuine intent to cause harm then I'm truly sorry for you.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#102 - 2012-03-31 04:01:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
All that is asked of the SA community is that you respect the boundaries between in-game conflict and ooc harrassment and make sure you stay on the right side of the line.




That's literally what mittens said in the interview. You should listen to it.



Well you'd help his case immensely if you started to accept the need for this also.

(and by *you* I do largely mean SA members on Eve online forums)

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#103 - 2012-03-31 04:04:45 UTC
Great show.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#104 - 2012-03-31 04:05:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Zirise wrote:
Allandi wrote:
when he got drunk and attempted to bully someone into suicide.


If you can't differentiate between a drunken 'ha hah' gone wrong and a genuine inttent to cause harm then I'm truly sorry for you.



The legal system (and common sense) does not differentiate drunk vs sober when rendering decisions of this nature.

e.g.: "i was drunk, and being an *******, but I swear she was 18 Your Honor".

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Caimeka
Doomheim
#105 - 2012-03-31 04:05:45 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
All that is asked of the SA community is that you respect the boundaries between in-game conflict and ooc harrassment and make sure you stay on the right side of the line.




That's literally what mittens said in the interview. You should listen to it.



Well you'd help his case immensely if you started to accept the need for this also.

(and by *you* I do largely mean SA members on Eve online forums)


I would like to order a 2 dollar sucky sucky
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#106 - 2012-03-31 04:12:08 UTC
Caimeka wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
All that is asked of the SA community is that you respect the boundaries between in-game conflict and ooc harrassment and make sure you stay on the right side of the line.




That's literally what mittens said in the interview. You should listen to it.



Well you'd help his case immensely if you started to accept the need for this also.

(and by *you* I do largely mean SA members on Eve online forums)


I would like to order a 2 dollar sucky sucky


case in point.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Zirise
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2012-03-31 04:14:02 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Zirise wrote:
Allandi wrote:
when he got drunk and attempted to bully someone into suicide.


If you can't differentiate between a drunken 'ha hah' gone wrong and a genuine inttent to cause harm then I'm truly sorry for you.



The legal system (and common sense) does not differentiate drunk vs sober when rendering decisions of this nature.

e.g.: "i was drunk, and being an *******, but I swear she was 18 Your Honor".


Drunkenness aside, someone who was trying to make a funny in bad taste is not the same as someone genuinely advocating someone to kill themselves.
Zirise
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2012-03-31 04:17:16 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Caimeka wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
All that is asked of the SA community is that you respect the boundaries between in-game conflict and ooc harrassment and make sure you stay on the right side of the line.




That's literally what mittens said in the interview. You should listen to it.



Well you'd help his case immensely if you started to accept the need for this also.

(and by *you* I do largely mean SA members on Eve online forums)


I would like to order a 2 dollar sucky sucky


case in point.


There's nothing wrong with ooc harassment as long as its directed at characters within the game. This is eve after all and not everyone role-plays a transexual hooker.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040724180503/http://www.mordante.demon.co.uk/Maison.htm
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#109 - 2012-03-31 04:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Zirise wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Zirise wrote:
Allandi wrote:
when he got drunk and attempted to bully someone into suicide.


If you can't differentiate between a drunken 'ha hah' gone wrong and a genuine inttent to cause harm then I'm truly sorry for you.



The legal system (and common sense) does not differentiate drunk vs sober when rendering decisions of this nature.

e.g.: "i was drunk, and being an *******, but I swear she was 18 Your Honor".


Drunkenness aside, someone who was trying to make a funny in bad taste is not the same as someone genuinely advocating someone to kill themselves.


So you are saying we should chalk this up to levity, or just some playful grab-assing?

The video evidence states otherwise very clearly, especially when you consider the in-game player's name was spelled out in precise detail after disclosing he said he was suicidal and along with the exact words: "if you want to make the guy kill himself his name is xxxx"

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#110 - 2012-03-31 04:22:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Zirise wrote:
[
There's nothing wrong with ooc harassment as long as its directed at characters within the game. This is eve after all and not everyone role-plays a transexual hooker.


How exactly can you direct Out of Character harrassment at a "character in game"? Lets face it, you are trying (albeit unsuccessfully) to harrass the player behind the character and since we're talking here entirely as players (me).

Just like several years ago Alexander Gianturco almost certainly was involved in sending the url you just liniked to my clients in a city of london bank I was working for at that time with an accusation I (the player) was working as an "internet prostitute" and person of low moral fibre.

Now thats a direct ooc attempt at harrassment and damaging my rl work. Very much the same kind of thing that Alexander Gianturco is now claiming against Massively and the gaming media.

I am sure you can see the connection.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Zirise
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2012-03-31 04:25:31 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Zirise wrote:
[
There's nothing wrong with ooc harassment as long as its directed at characters within the game. This is eve after all and not everyone role-plays a transexual hooker.


How exactly can you direct Out of Character harrassment at a "character in game"? Lets face it, you are trying (albeit unsuccessfully) to harrass the player behind the character and since we're talking here entirely as players (me).

Just like several years ago Alexander Gianturco almost certainly was involved in sending the url you just liniked to my clients in a city of london bank I was working for at that time with an accusation I (the player) was working as an "internet prostitute" and person of low moral fibre.

Now thats a direct ooc attempt at harrassment and damaging my rl work. Very much the same kind of thing that Alexander Gianturco is now claiming against Massively and the gaming media.

I am sure you can see the connection.


Waving the url around these forums isn't harassment, because you can opt out at any time. It's the internet.

People sending it to your workplace absolutely crosses a line but so does your implying that 'Alex' was involved.
Zirise
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2012-03-31 04:27:25 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Zirise wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Zirise wrote:
Allandi wrote:
when he got drunk and attempted to bully someone into suicide.


If you can't differentiate between a drunken 'ha hah' gone wrong and a genuine inttent to cause harm then I'm truly sorry for you.



The legal system (and common sense) does not differentiate drunk vs sober when rendering decisions of this nature.

e.g.: "i was drunk, and being an *******, but I swear she was 18 Your Honor".


Drunkenness aside, someone who was trying to make a funny in bad taste is not the same as someone genuinely advocating someone to kill themselves.


So you are saying we should chalk this up to levity, or just some playful grab-assing?

The video evidence states otherwise very clearly, especially when you consider the in-game player's name was spelled out in precise detail after disclosing he said he was suicidal and along with the exact words: "if you want to make the guy kill himself his name is xxxx"


People tell people to kill themselves all the time on the internet, it's virtually never intended to be taken as serious. The Mittani, in a moment of drunkenness forgot that this culture doesn't extend to the world at large. It really is that simple.
Allandi
Doomheim
#113 - 2012-03-31 04:28:17 UTC
Zirise wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Zirise wrote:
Allandi wrote:
when he got drunk and attempted to bully someone into suicide.


If you can't differentiate between a drunken 'ha hah' gone wrong and a genuine inttent to cause harm then I'm truly sorry for you.



The legal system (and common sense) does not differentiate drunk vs sober when rendering decisions of this nature.

e.g.: "i was drunk, and being an *******, but I swear she was 18 Your Honor".


Drunkenness aside, someone who was trying to make a funny in bad taste is not the same as someone genuinely advocating someone to kill themselves.


You're right, and it's likely a joke watching the video (I don't pretend to know the guy's thoughts). Some people can even get away with this type of behavior. But refer back toward the political position part of my post.

Why is it so surprising there were political attacks on the guy? He's a political figure (and a polarizing one) that made a huge political mistake on camera. Were the roles reversed (for someone that goons hate) you can bet the same attacks would come.
Zirise
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2012-03-31 04:31:51 UTC
Allandi wrote:
Zirise wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Zirise wrote:
Allandi wrote:
when he got drunk and attempted to bully someone into suicide.


If you can't differentiate between a drunken 'ha hah' gone wrong and a genuine inttent to cause harm then I'm truly sorry for you.



The legal system (and common sense) does not differentiate drunk vs sober when rendering decisions of this nature.

e.g.: "i was drunk, and being an *******, but I swear she was 18 Your Honor".


Drunkenness aside, someone who was trying to make a funny in bad taste is not the same as someone genuinely advocating someone to kill themselves.


You're right, and it's likely a joke watching the video (I don't pretend to know the guy's thoughts). Some people can even get away with this type of behavior. But refer back toward the political position part of my post.

Why is it so surprising there were political attacks on the guy? He's a political figure (and a polarizing one) that made a huge political mistake on camera. Were the roles reversed (for someone that goons hate) you can bet the same attacks would come.


Oh I'm not surprised at all. That's exactly what all of this is-- political.
Allandi
Doomheim
#115 - 2012-03-31 04:34:40 UTC
Then whats the problem? Do you complain this much about real life political commercials which expose another candidate's youthful indiscretions?
Frederick Sanger
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2012-03-31 04:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Frederick Sanger
Zirise wrote:
Now that someone has posted Mittens' real life address along with a threat to **** his wife can we expect the same media circus, public shaming and bans for violating the EULA? (Not to mention a criminal conviction.)


Oh right its not cyber-bullying if it happens to a goon because ~live by the sword.

edit: http://twitter.com/#!/LiangNuren/status/185924104279425024


This community is irredeemable.

E: @Jade Constantine

You're really going to continue to use Mitten's real name even after someone just gave out his home address and threatened his wife. Giving out another players personal information (including their real name) is against the EULA and considering what just happened in very poor taste.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#117 - 2012-03-31 04:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Zirise wrote:


People tell people to kill themselves all the time on the internet, it's virtually never intended to be taken as serious. The Mittani, in a moment of drunkenness forgot that this culture doesn't extend to the world at large. It really is that simple.


First point, agreed. However, telling a large group of individuals to harass a very specific person with the specific goal of that person committing suicide is not even close to being similar.

Drunkenness or levity is not an invokable defense here.

google: incitement to suicide.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Zirise
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2012-03-31 04:41:52 UTC
Allandi wrote:
Then whats the problem? Do you complain this much about real life political commercials which expose another candidate's youthful indiscretions?


Please point to all my 3 or 4 posts of complaints confined to this thread, I am so sorry if I have overburdened the EVE community.

The problem is people are waving banners of ~moral outrage~ when it has a lot more to do with axes that need grinding.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#119 - 2012-03-31 04:45:40 UTC
Zirise wrote:
when he got drunk and attempted to bully someone into suicide.




SNIP******

People tell people to kill themselves all the time on the internet, it's virtually never intended to be taken as serious. The Mittani, in a moment of drunkenness forgot that this culture doesn't extend to the world at large. It really is that simple.



You can continue to beat this dead Bee, but it's not gonna come back to life....Oops


If someone else did or said something stupid, they deserve whatever happens to them, but it isn't relevant to Mittani's case.
He screwed up. As a retired person with a legal background, he knew the dangers of standing up in front of a live feed, yet he did, and embarrassed himself. He should heve expected this, and been glad it's not worse....



Still looking for those mighty forum warrior Bees that seem to bee missing from the Forums.... Roll



Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#120 - 2012-03-31 04:49:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Reese
Frederick Sanger wrote:

E: @Jade Constantine

You're really going to continue to use Mitten's real name even after someone just gave out his home address and threatened his wife. Giving out another players personal information (including their real name) is against the EULA and considering what just happened in very poor taste.


Correct. Giving out personal information even if others have learned it publicly is not allowed regardless of the issues that surround it. You said it yourself, is circumstantial, and only used probablies. However you do not know that for fact, same way that people issuing statements of RL issues in game you do not know for fact or false. As such, follow the evidence and report on that. Unless enough is available to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, you should not be using a real name or targeting the player. When/If you do have undeniable proof, then you take it to the law.

@Beekeeper bob They probably aren't posting because that is going to cause more harm than good. Probably have been asked not to exasterbate the issue which is what us other players should be doing. Lets take it in game, let them speak with guns!

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.