These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Sandbox Request: Allow Bombs and Bubbles in High-Sec
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#41 - 2012-03-30 22:18:54 UTC
Nick Bison wrote:
Uhhh really ... so every HiSec gate can be bubbled so you can scan every ship coming thru ?
Big fat no.



The sad part is, good scanners can run a scan fast enough with the right gear and boosters, so we know the request for high sec bubbles are coming from the losers who need "help" from rules changes.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#42 - 2012-03-30 22:21:13 UTC
rofl @ highsec bubbles in jita.

.
Zircon Dasher
#43 - 2012-03-30 22:26:29 UTC
F&I is that way Arrow

Since I am here though, I am totally ok with this and would like to add another item to the list.

Covert Cyno.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#44 - 2012-03-30 22:30:48 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

A bubble is also not a direct cause of death for everyone trapped in it, but at most a two-minute hindrance of their movement. Besides, what kills the freighter isn't the bubble, but direct firepower. A bunch of Tornadoes will pop that freighter regardless of whether it gets tackled or not.



Nuets and vamps are not a direct cause of death and yet you get popped for those actions as well, why should the bubble be any different for popping, or am I no longer talking to Mr. consequences in Space here?

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#45 - 2012-03-30 22:32:33 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

A bubble is also not a direct cause of death for everyone trapped in it, but at most a two-minute hindrance of their movement. Besides, what kills the freighter isn't the bubble, but direct firepower. A bunch of Tornadoes will pop that freighter regardless of whether it gets tackled or not.



Nuets and vamps are not a direct cause of death and yet you get popped for those actions as well, why should the bubble be any different for popping, or am I no longer talking to Mr. consequences in Space here?

You're putting words in my mouth. I never mentioned anything about "no popping."

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-03-30 22:34:10 UTC
Allow bombs in high sec but give newbie ships 100% resistance to bombs. Im all for the open PvP of EvE but newbies need a place to start without getting face raped immediately.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Leemi Sobo
#47 - 2012-03-30 22:35:51 UTC
since i don't want to crawl 100km to the gate with a freighter ... -1 to bubbles in highsec Blink
Percival Gates
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-03-30 22:38:07 UTC
roflrofl

Imagine the carnage that could be caused with a small fleet of suicidal bombers in hi sec. Find a heavily packed area and bomb with 6-7 bombers = dozens of wrecks filled with juicy loot. Forget scanning for a gank target. You can just assume that there will be a certain isk value of loot dropped per cubic kilometer of space. So, when determining if you want to bomb or not, you simply have to wait for a critical density of ships within a given bomb radius. This is why there are no bombs in high sec.
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-03-30 22:38:08 UTC
Let's just make hisec into nullsec and get on with it.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Horza Phlebas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-03-31 01:03:04 UTC
Lets do some math.

40 Bombers, instantly kill a Jump Freighter. Cost of 40 Bombers is around 1.5Billion Isk.

Now its not hard to find a spot in Jita with 5 JumpFrieghters, 6 Frieghters, and 10 Hualers in the one place.

5 JumpFrieghters = 35B Isk
6 Freighters = 7B Isk
10 Hualers = 7B Isk

Total Damage = 49Billion Isk damage
Cost to Bombers = 1.5bi



Sounds like Profit to me.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#51 - 2012-03-31 01:08:56 UTC
Horza Phlebas wrote:
Lets do some math.

40 Bombers, instantly kill a Jump Freighter. Cost of 40 Bombers is around 1.5Billion Isk.

Now its not hard to find a spot in Jita with 5 JumpFrieghters, 6 Frieghters, and 10 Hualers in the one place.

5 JumpFrieghters = 35B Isk
6 Freighters = 7B Isk
10 Hualers = 7B Isk

Total Damage = 49Billion Isk damage
Cost to Bombers = 1.5bi



Sounds like Profit to me.

I understand your point, but I did specifically mention that the same safeties that apply to smartbombs would apply to bomber bombs as well. That is, the bombs wouldn't work "at 0" to gates and stations. You could still nail a bunch of people who come out of a gate/get off station dock, but hey, you can do that now with smartbombs as well.

Besides, after a few days of this bombing, people will (hopefully) wise up and not just autopilot through one of Jita's many gates. Player initiative and all that. If they don't, then they can only blame themselves.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Horza Phlebas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-03-31 01:16:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Horza Phlebas
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Horza Phlebas wrote:
Lets do some math.

40 Bombers, instantly kill a Jump Freighter. Cost of 40 Bombers is around 1.5Billion Isk.

Now its not hard to find a spot in Jita with 5 JumpFrieghters, 6 Frieghters, and 10 Hualers in the one place.

5 JumpFrieghters = 35B Isk
6 Freighters = 7B Isk
10 Hualers = 7B Isk

Total Damage = 49Billion Isk damage
Cost to Bombers = 1.5bi



Sounds like Profit to me.

I understand your point, but I did specifically mention that the same safeties that apply to smartbombs would apply to bomber bombs as well. That is, the bombs wouldn't work "at 0" to gates and stations. You could still nail a bunch of people who come out of a gate/get off station dock, but hey, you can do that now with smartbombs as well.

Besides, after a few days of this bombing, people will (hopefully) wise up and not just autopilot through one of Jita's many gates. Player initiative and all that. If they don't, then they can only blame themselves.



Yes you can find that many freighters off a gate in Jita.

Also your proposing bubbles in highsec also.. and that would catch 20-50 Ships in Jita easily.

Also Smartbombs only do around 2400 Volley and require 8Slot Battleship, bombs do 8000 Volley.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#53 - 2012-03-31 01:20:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Lets think of the tools in a lore perspective.
Bombs and bubbles, t1, t2. corporations under guidelines of the empires and concord to put in safety locks for equipment usage within highsec.

Add deadspace, pirate versions of these mods with the restriction codes ripped out.

Make them illegal mods when player vice squad for drugs is finally put in place.

You can now bomb targets at war in high without concord interference. Blow a neutral and concord shows up. AND white knights could scan and suspect flag you if they catch you at stations or gates.
Same with bubbles.

Expensive fun.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#54 - 2012-03-31 01:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Horza Phlebas wrote:
Yes you can find that many freighters off a gate in Jita.

Also your proposing bubbles in highsec also.. and that would catch 20-50 Ships in Jita easily.

Also Smartbombs only do around 2400 Volley and require 8Slot Battleship, bombs do 8000 Volley.

All of these are just numbers and not arguments against my proposal. It's like saying "1400mm artillery does 237% the volley damage of tachyon beams, and therefore shouldn't be allowed in empire."

If a bunch of people want to lump their freighters into a tight group in Jita, they should have the right to do so. Just like I should have the right to launch a bomb, and face the consequences of doing so.

The fact that 95% of all Jita traffic goes through a single gate (voluntarily) doesn't make my proposal less valid.

Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Lets think of the tools in a lore perspective.
Bombs and bubbles, t1, t2. corporations under guidelines of the empires and concord to put in safety locks for equipment usage within highsec.

Add deadspace, pirate versions of these mods with the restriction codes ripped out.

Make them illegal mods when player vice squad for drugs is finally put in place.

You can now bomb targets at war in high without concord interference. Blow a neutral and concord shows up. AND white knights could scan and suspect flag you if they catch you at stations or gates.
Same with bubbles.

Expensive fun.

Exactly. I already mentioned module illegality in the OP. "Pirate version" of these things would add an interesting twist. Though I disagree about the "safety lock" thing. I mean, you can't really preempt the firing of an explosive device like that. Otherwise missiles would be banned too.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Horza Phlebas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-03-31 01:29:57 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

All of these are just numbers and not arguments against my proposal.


Numbers are a very valid Argument.


Lets take a Fleet of 300 ( The larger Alliances could get this together easily )

A fleet of 300, could effectively bubble every gate in jita indefinitely, and rain down bombs destroying EVERY ship that enters or attempts to leave jita.


JITA would be shut down, and the big alliances would not care about the cost, they do it for the lol's
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#56 - 2012-03-31 01:34:33 UTC
Horza Phlebas wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

All of these are just numbers and not arguments against my proposal.


Numbers are a very valid Argument.


Lets take a Fleet of 300 ( The larger Alliances could get this together easily )

A fleet of 300, could effectively bubble every gate in jita indefinitely, and rain down bombs destroying EVERY ship that enters or attempts to leave jita.


JITA would be shut down, and the big alliances would not care about the cost, they do it for the lol's

Cost is actually quite a significant factor in this proposal. Not only would it cost you the price of a dictor to bubble a gate for (at most) two minutes, but they (and a lot of other T2 stuff) would rise in price both as an effect of an increase in destruction and an effect of a lot more materials being destroyed in the game's primary market hub.

A dictor costs roughly 40 million at the moment. An hour of bubbles on just one gate is 1.2 billion, and 24 hours on 7 gates is 201.6 billion. That's not an insignificant amount of money, especially when you consider that there's no insurance.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#57 - 2012-03-31 01:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Though I disagree about the "safety lock" thing. I mean, you can't really preempt the firing of an explosive device like that. Otherwise missiles would be banned too.


The risk of collateral damage is too great with a free floating dumb shell from hell. Smart bombs are at least within proximity and overview helm commands can easily dictate any distance to neutrals. And missiles are even more fool proof as they self deactivate when out of range or lose site of target and have smart tracking that has, so far in current history, never jumped targets.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#58 - 2012-03-31 01:39:51 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
[quote=Horza Phlebas]Though I disagree about the "safety lock" thing. I mean, you can't really preempt the firing of an explosive device like that. Otherwise missiles would be banned too.


The risk of collateral damage is too great with a free floating dumb shell from hell. Smart bombs are at least within proximity and overview helm commands can easily dictate any distance to neutrals. And missiles are even more fool proof as they self deactivate when out of range or lose site of target and have smart tracking that has, so far in current history, ever jumped targets.

Except that missiles used to do AoE damage until CCP made changes. Also, smartbombs have a set range, and still hit cloaked targets; that is, they are no less dangerous than bomber bombs in practice.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
stoicfaux
#59 - 2012-04-02 00:39:49 UTC
Horza Phlebas wrote:
Lets do some math.

40 Bombers, instantly kill a Jump Freighter. Cost of 40 Bombers is around 1.5Billion Isk.

Now its not hard to find a spot in Jita with 5 JumpFrieghters, 6 Frieghters, and 10 Hualers in the one place.

5 JumpFrieghters = 35B Isk
6 Freighters = 7B Isk
10 Hualers = 7B Isk

Total Damage = 49Billion Isk damage
Cost to Bombers = 1.5bi



Sounds like Profit to me.

And then there's the other problem. There's almost no "social" cost to doing this.

If a group were to perform such an extreme act of terrorism in Jita, then they would become kill on sight in Caldari space, i.e. "perma-banned" by the Caldari State. The other governments would also be quick to condemn such actions and would also reciprocate with kill on sight policies in their space. Players would be given free reign to shoot them if they ever set foot in high-space again. The terrorists' corps and/or alliances would also be sanctioned by the Caldari/Gallente/Amarr/Minmatar factions, which would comprise increased taxes on market transactions (for the restitution and widow &orphans fund,) and they could be prohibited from having towers or offices in faction space/corps, etc..

No amount of ratting, cosmos missions, tag turn-ins, etc., should be enough to redeem their faction reputations.

Eve is supposed to be a game about choices and consequences. The current aggression mechanics belie that claim.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
#60 - 2012-04-02 01:39:36 UTC
Hi-sec war-dec bear wants his life made even easier than it is already.