Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Station and Gate Games
Currently, the timer is only 30 seconds, this is not long enough. Also, not all members of an aggressing fleet get locked, this should change
Changes

• Any FLEET that aggresses is locked out of stations and jumping until after they stop aggressing, and this means ALL members of the fleet.


• The lock out timer needs to be increased from 30 seconds, to 1 minute.


• In the event that you aggress a target and he jumps out of system and that target had no fleet members in system at the time, then your cooldown for your fleet is reduced to 15 seconds to give you the opportunity to chase him down. Unless your aggressing was a crime, in which case, you are locked until CONCORD pops you. illegal acts do not effect the rest of the fleet, only the person/s involved in the act.

Out of Corp/Alliance Support
Currently CCP is doing nothing to solve this little issue... I have a solution.

Changes

• In the event that ANYONE that isn't a valid war target (i.e. member of the corps/alliances, or a hired merc corp) attempts to interfere with a battle, they become a WAR criminal and are CONCORDED. This means NO ONE outside of the war is allowed to fire a single shot at someone inside the war reguardless of whether they're in a fleet or not.


• This includes logistics. As soon as your attempt to rep someone who is a war target while they have an aggression counter, then you are concorded.


• If you are a fleet booster, but are not part of one of the warring corps/alliances/mercs, then as soon as your fleet engages someone, you become a WAR criminal.


• War criminal status means you are a Concord target, as well as a target to anyone in the war for the next 15 minutes. Concord may not Pod you, but anyone in the war can. You also lose some security status.

This again is designed to balance the fights to be more fair, and all targets involved in a war should be free war targets at all times. If you want that logistics, fleet booster, or extra dps, then you need to either recruit them, or they need to have been in the war from the start.
This is where small merc teams come in handy. If you do not have logistics or fleet support in your corp/alliance, or if they're currently unavailable, then you can hire free market mercs, which are solo players in npc corps contracting themselves out, or you can hire a merc team that best suits your needs. It is up to the Mercs to list what they supply and how much of it. This will not only promote solo mercs, but also to promote small merc teams instead of large merc corps and alliances.

Leaving a corp/alliance at war
Any member that attempts to leave either side during the war (including the mercs) is automatically charged 20 mil isk from their individual wallet. If they don't have the isk, then their wallet goes negative, which means they can't use the market until it's back possitive. This is because war aren't between the names of the corporations, but the members of the corporations, so you're paying Concord to remove to war flag from your head. So it is very expensive for corps to try and jump ship during war, and the same goes for mercs. You are also still a flagged war target for 24 hours after leaving the war for BOTH corporations. So if you jump ship and your corp isnt' happy about it, they have 24 hrs to shoot you.

Surrendering

• The game should not in any way determine the conditions of the surrender. This should be up to the players.


• The involved parties should have the option of the surrender conditions


• The involved parties should be the ones to determine the peace window in which either corp cannot war dec each other.

Roleplay
Just to make it fun and interesting for those role playing involved corps/alliances, add in an optional feature that either has prefabricated War Declaration Decree and surrender Notification, or allow the players themselves to write up these papers and attach them to the War log.

I'm not sure if I missed anything, but for the most part, I feel that if CCP set up the war dec system this way, it would not only bring more evenly matched battles to Eve, but it would actually promote the use of the War Dec system as a tactical tool. it fixes tons of other issues, but these are the primary ones.
Thanks for listening. Lets try to keep discussions civil and present your arguments if you have them. Don't just say "no, you're stupid".
Be sure and click like if you agree so CCP will notice it.

I honestly think War decs should cost a lot more than this.

If they are going to force us to PvP, base cost should be in the 200 mill right now. I mean look at it. Costs of everything else is going up? *cough* Plexes *cough*.. why not move the base cost of this up? 200 Mill is enough for the Corp CEO to think things through and decide if they seriously want to go to war or not.

200 mill for a corp. 500 mill for an Alliance.
Base cost of course. Price can go up as per member.

It seems pretty balanced at first, but you seem to have forgotten a few possible details

There are New-Player Training-Corps out there. They get wardecced so griefers can kill new players legally. If a new player doesn't want to PvP yet, they'll lose 10 mil. In some cases, that might even mean they'll be unable to do a thing for months if they don't PvP for the duration of the war. A new player who would suddenly lose 70 mil because he/she doesn't want to try out PvP yet (maybe due to lack of spare-ships or just lack of confidence in their player-skills) would rage-quit instantly

Another detail you didn't mention at all: There are casual players playing this game. They may not even log into the game for extended periods of time, if they have a job or are on a vacation that week. Example: If I were to go on a 10-day vacation, and I come home after those ten days and find the corp I'm in has been war-decced while I was gone, I would have lost 70 mil to a war-dec, when I had no chance to be online at all. That doesn't really seem balanced, does it? Or what if the war-deccers and the targets are online at different times? If A is online between 2:00 and 8:00 UTC, and B is online between 12:00 and 19:00 UTC, both corps would lose a lot of ISK, which would also be abused by griefers

Or a third scenario: What if an industry corp is split and has more bases, in order to cover more markets? If they have JCs, it's no big deal, as they can just use them to get to where the war is, but if they don't and their bases are 20+ jumps from eachother, you can't expect them to fly those 20 jumps to fight a war, possibly even against their will. Especially not if they're not allowed to enter the system the war-deccers are in (if your faction-standing is too low, you're not allowed to enter certain systems)

Your idea is good enough, but you didn't seem to consider the chance that war-decced players might not be able to fight back, and thus would lose their ISK quickly. I know a lot of players would rage-quit if they suddenly lost 70 mil because their corp was war-decced while they weren't able to log into EVE, or if they were just cut off from the systems where the fighting takes place, because of standing

Of course, a player could just jump corp when he goes on a vacation, but many players probably wouldn't do that

This isn't meant as flaming your otherwise good suggestion, but more constructive criticism. Maybe, if you could incorporate ways to counter this, it might make war-decs more enjoyable for both war-deccers and targets (although targets probably won't enjoy it either way)

And a possibly even bigger question: How would the system register if you've gone out and tried fighting back? The obvious solution to this would be to check the Aggression Countdown, and if a player has aggressed the other party, they get to go for another day without the fine. And when would it be paid? Every 24 hours from the war goes live? Every day at downtime? There are still things to be thought about, before this can become a truly well-thought-out idea. But the basics you've outlines so far look pretty fair

I think that's wrong, it wont cost too high. WAR should be the most expensive thing to do in EVE. To wage WAR on someone is not something that people should just do because they are bored. It should mean something to everyone in EVE when you win a war. At the moment in high sec it just feels like you squashed a fly buzzing around your head.

200 million + penalty for outnumbering the target corp sounds good and 500 for alliance. In terms of 20 million being the base all I have to say is that it's too low. It would take me few hours to make 3 times that amount on my own. Being in a corp you should be able to get 20 million easy, 200 million on the other hand would take effort.

I agree with everything else that was said. The only other thing I would like to add is to do with flags. War Criminal status sounds good but the flag system is not part of the War Dec system. It is handled by the Justice system and since they are redoing that as well I don't see any reason why they should not implement a War Criminal flag. Instead of just making a pilot "suspect" because after all you are committing a crime during a war.

bump

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the 5 mil part, and I'm assuming you mean 1mil per overhead member. That said, I agree whole hearted with the 200-500 costs,. When I'm not on a cell phone ill edit the numbers in my OP.

I agree with you for the most part, however, if you're unwilling to fight, then you shouldn't punish the deccers for this by not allowing them to continue the war dec.

A strategic advantage to war deccing a corp that won't fight back is that you can starve them out by not letting the undock. Thus either forcing them to pay to leave the corp, or forcing them to surrender so they can actually play the game.


Edit
I went ahead and edited that part out. However, I do still feel that there needs to be something implemented that makes declaring war a major thing in Eve and either Forces or suggest to the Alliances that declaring war on one another is a good idea.

Perhaps they could implement it so that you couldn't take sov without a wardec against the current sov holders???

GTFO of highsec ?

And nothing more to worry about mechanics since you don't need them.

Or start calling yourself risk adverse requiring a crutch mechanic that allows you to do what you, as you want, forget who the **** is on the other end of the internet connection cause all you want to do is pad a game score without repercussions to yourself.

Very good idea. Honestly, I think if Eve wants to see more players, really need to sit down and work on more consequences. When I am in a war in high sec, the only thing I see is the other corp gate camping to catch one person fully off guard in a slow aligning ship.

Now... when I am READY to PVP, I pull out my Scorpion and grab a couple of friends... they scatter like roaches. What's the fun in that?

I want a war to be an actually battle, not "Oh, lets go gank some people." When an aggressor corp declares war, there needs to be a contested Solar system... a radius of 3 or 4 solar systems... (Cost goes up for more radius) so we can get together and fight. People who are new to Eve MAY actually want to be included when they know they are going to fight in contested space between the two corps and could actually have fun in a fleet vs fleet battle.

We've defined this already. People who gate camp during a war dec are people who can't get any kills any other way. Fleet combat? You fail. Step it up and fight like real gentlemen.

[quote=Xemnus][quote=Caius Sivaris]Lots of people wanting absolute safety in highsec here...[/quote


I am starting to get sick of people complaining about people in high sec. Yes, the game is 90% PVP. But a lot of the times, I want to play Eve because it's Eve. Isn't it enough that ninja looters an can flippers can harass us in high sec and get away with it? Why can't low sec harassers and gankers mind their own business? If you want people from high sec to come to low sec to get ganked by you. Buy is a ship and we'll do it

Just like you people who complain about high sec incursions. You complain how we can gain money safely, but you don't think about it. Everyone is different, we ALL don't want to be involved in PVP all day and all game. Some of us have babies to take care of which would require an emergency afk. I don't want to tend to something that could take one minute and turn around and find out my ship and pod was destroyed because YOU have nothing else to do

When I am ready to PvP, I am ready to PVP. Stop complaining.[/quote

It was my understand this was the exact reason for introducing Faction Warfare in the first place, so those of us who prefer to live within High-Sec can engage in Casual Combat PvP

Sure, I do enjoy Combat PvP... but I DO NOT want this aspect of the game forced upon me
There is much more to EVE Online than simply ships blowing each other up

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Honestly what need to change before the WarDec system is CrimeWatch (Aggression System), the current changes proposed to the WarDec system are little more than a clarification from CCP that they want to see more High-Sec griefing rather than provide us with a tool that allows for a realistic resolution when Diplomacy (which is rarely used as is) fails

While sure I am all for allowing players the freedom to sort out issues between themselves, I think a greater number of systems in-place to cover player interaction would allow for some more diverse and better gameplay

What would make the most sense to me would be

• War Declarations should have a Cease-Fire Agreemen
While you do not have to honour these, and are still allowed to activity engage in combat with enemy ships without intervention from CONCORD / Gate Guns / Station Guns; doing so will incure a 15 minutes Global Outlaw / Suspect tag allowing you to be attacked by anyone (in the war or not)

This would allow for a form of perminant Cold-War to happen where combat is possible, but obviously with risk attached

• War Declarations should have Neutral Zone
These can be Stations, Systems or Empire High-Security depending on the War stipulations
By Default only Corporate Headquarters Station would be considered a Neutral Zone, this would prevent fighting within 250km from the Station itself; otherwise Concord will step-in

• War maintainance cost should be respective of the Space permitted to fight within
As such it scaled based upon the valid warzones, which could be tied in to the map tile system to show you where fighting is permitted. It would also be useful to have next to the system name (Warzone) or such, to give players an instant heads-up on where combat is allowed

The basic concept here would be
5 million per System * Security Ratin
1 million per Structure/Asteroid Belt/Planet * Security Rating (If not covered by systems on the list

Corporation / Alliances Standings MUST be => System Security with Soveriengty Holder in order to be allowed to add it as a combat system

As such Corporations with say 6.0 Caldari Standings, would ONLY be allowed to have Caldari systems that were Security Status 6.0 or Below in any War Declarations. This doesn't make 1.0 space completely safe, there is still the chance that a Corporation may have the standings to have wars in those areas; but it would certainly make it less of a chance

Particularly when you consider that you can't put up a POS above 7.0 and mining has very little yield in those systems and above too; so people doing WarDecs in those systems frankly are just doing it most of the time for Griefing purposes

Also as the multiplier is based on the security rating, the Null-Sec War costs would be close to negliable... allowing them to use it more as a means of tracking a war than the ridiculous cost being a means to stop them going to war, which they'll do with or without the declaration. You want as many people involved in using this new system as possible

• Mutual Wars (War Declaration on someone who Declared War on you) would both have to pay the maintainance cost, however this cost would be reduced by 75%. Concept here is basically both guys want to effectively kick seven bells of **** out of each other, why charge them more to do it? Charge them less so they can afford to throw more ships in to the mix and have the conflict expand over a larger area

• Improve the War Declaration / Preparation Interface, but DO NOT take away Corporate / Alliance Voting for it.
Giving one person absolute power (as is currently the case with the imo broken Alliance system) is stupid, this should be a democratic system; even if one person does own most of the shares. Instead of saying this is overly complicated that most people can't figure it out, write better documentation that is directly linked with an Aura spoken intro / tutorial when people first check out the War Tab

I should be able to right-click on someone and "Propose Vote for War"... the Corporate Voting system also need to be more transparent and easier to impliment changes for all those who have Voting power
While it relatively easy for your own Corp, holdings in others are a ***** to vote on

Run out of space to add more right now, so will expand on anything if people are interested.