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Canon/Lore question: Why are there so few capsuleers?

Author
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#1 - 2012-03-29 14:20:35 UTC
I've been looking at the EVE wiki but it isn't clear... from what i get, capsuleers are thoroughly trained and that training is hazardous to their body and mind, but, what the EVE wiki doesn't tell is, how does someone become a capsuleer? Why are there so few capsuleers, when being a capasuleer is the biggest thing in New Eden?

What prevents the ordinary denizens of New Eden to become immortal demigods?

It's because of money, as in becoming a capsuleer is expensive? It's that the access to the capsuleer training is limited by law/politics? It's a genetical thing? It's a kind of repulsion to the extensive body modifications required by capsuleers?

What is the canon/lore on why there are so few capsuleers around?
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#2 - 2012-03-29 14:27:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Horatius Caul
You need physiological and genetic compatibility with capsule implants, and the mental fortitude to resist mindlock (where your consciousness can't resume control of your body after disconnecting from a starship). The real problem arises from the fact that there are very, very few institutions that regularly check for these things. You basically need to already be enrolled in one of the most prestigious schools in the universe to even qualify for testing to see if you're compatible.

I imagine the main exception would be people who are somehow identified as potential capsuleers outside the system and receive scholarships to one of the big academies pretty much just to be tested.

But yeah, a combination of compatibility issues and lack of institutions able or willing to perform those checks.


EDIT: There's also the small detail that, even though they might qualify, a lot of people probably don't want to become capsuleers at all. This would especially be true in the Amarr Empire, where there is a significant taboo against cloning.
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-03-29 19:25:04 UTC
Yeah to expand on the Amarr bit from Mr. Caul's explaination...

For the Amarrian's (highest population if you consider that both the Khanid and Ammatar have simular beliefs) cloning yourself is reason for damnation. Basically by nature capsuleers, according to the Amarr faith, are damned from the start. Regardless of how much good works they may (or likely wont) do. Kinda the high price for immortality.

Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#4 - 2012-03-29 20:00:10 UTC
Well, technically it's only the royals who are banned from cloning themselves, and I'm sure there's a large mass of pragmatic clone-users in the Empire (capsuleers or not). I think the Godflesh taboo is very deep-rooted though, and the nobles would likely try to make sure that popular opinion stands against the use of clones at all - because if your populace can be immortal and you cannot, it's difficult to be the ruling class.

There's also the whole "do clones have souls?" issue that seems to remain kinda unresolved, which to my mind would put off most Amarr from even entertaining the notion of cloning themselves.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#5 - 2012-03-29 20:19:28 UTC
Horatius Caul wrote:
Well, technically it's only the royals who are banned from cloning themselves, and I'm sure there's a large mass of pragmatic clone-users in the Empire (capsuleers or not). I think the Godflesh taboo is very deep-rooted though, and the nobles would likely try to make sure that popular opinion stands against the use of clones at all - because if your populace can be immortal and you cannot, it's difficult to be the ruling class.

There's also the whole "do clones have souls?" issue that seems to remain kinda unresolved, which to my mind would put off most Amarr from even entertaining the notion of cloning themselves.


But then, me and my main are Khanid... which opens a door to being a bit heterodox, i think.

Anyway I can see my roleplaying for my main was reasonably thorough... possibly she could had chosen to study, thus become a capsuleer after showing the appropiate genetical traits. Which in turn would open a door to checking the genes of, say, her younger cousin, once she was a rich capsuleer.
Azalas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-03-30 06:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Azalas
Minor Spoilers from Templar One





Apart from the characters that are featured on Chronicles/short stories and the EvE novels, the amount of capsuleers are as many as when EvE online went live, that was 8 Years ago. Timeline around YC 106 or 108. Cant memeber the exact date. The player base that plays EvE today whether you include alts and such are the amount of Capsuleers
In terms of how to become one. Seems like you had to be extremely rich and smart. Gallente Fed Navy had a position in the ranks to be a capsuleer
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#7 - 2012-03-30 06:36:43 UTC
Azalas wrote:
Minor Spoilers from Templar One





Apart from the characters that are featured on Chronicles/short stories and the EvE novels, the amount of capsuleers are as many as when EvE online went live, that was 8 Years ago. Timeline around YC 106 or 108. Cant memeber the exact date. The player base that plays EvE today whether you include alts and such are the amount of Capsuleers
In terms of how to become one. Seems like you had to be extremely rich and smart. Gallente Fed Navy had a position in the ranks to be a capsuleer



Yep, i pretty mcuh suspected that... that the players of EVE represent every last capsuleer supposed to exist in New Eden, so they are like one in a million compared to the total population. In a way, capsuleers in New Eden are as rare as billionaires in our real world.
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#8 - 2012-03-30 12:33:23 UTC
The biggest factor for the small number of capsuleers are, aside from the high cost of training them, is probably genetic compatibility.

If a persons body has only a slight chance to reject implants, then he/she is likely excluded from the capsuleer program, as the implantation process would be far too dangerous. The same would apply for persons who show strong signs of physical discomfort or have the chance to develop a psychosis from the jump effect of stargates.

Aside from that there is probably a high amoung of psychological screening and further genetic testing to remove those out, who might suffer from mindlock when being connected to a capsule.

The Jovians have the genetic and psychological compatibility to the pod engineered into them, but from the average population of New Eden far less then 1% have the ability to become pod pilots.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Stitcher
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-03-30 14:55:08 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Yep, i pretty mcuh suspected that... that the players of EVE represent every last capsuleer supposed to exist in New Eden, so they are like one in a million compared to the total population. In a way, capsuleers in New Eden are as rare as billionaires in our real world.


That seems unlikely. The nations wouldn't be funding Capsule training programs if they didn't benefit from it, by and large.

The existence of navy capsuleers like Korvin Lears suggest that the bulk of capsule graduates wind up serving their empire in the military, or something along those lines. There was also an old chronicle that had somebody using the capsule as a controller in the interstellar FTL comms network.

I suspect that our characters are the minority who've gone "rogue" - preferring a lifestyle of freedom and potentially unlimited power over patriotic service.

Among other things, that would imply that Caldari PCs like mine aren't actually very good Caldari - they had an opportunity to serve the State, and instead chose to be independent freelancers beholden to nobody except the allegiances they choose.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#10 - 2012-03-30 14:58:27 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
There was also an old chronicle that had somebody using the capsule as a controller in the interstellar FTL comms network.


Here you go. :3

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera
#11 - 2012-03-30 15:12:22 UTC
I believe the vast bulk of capsuleers continue working for their respective governments. The playerbase represent the 'free agents' who leave their governments in an official capacity and go 'freelance'.

IE what sane government would spend billions on educating and training immortal and incredibly deadly demigods only to give them the keys and then say 'ok go off and do what you want!' after training them?

Something that will be cleared up in the future I'm sure, but I imagine some terms of the Yulai Accords and conditional terms from the Jovians have something to do with this. IE we give you the technology for the capsule and you agree that x % of your trainees will be allowed to leave of their own volition, etc.

Regarding the rarity, as was pointed out earlier it is primarily a genetic issue. Many factions run extensive civilian testing in order to find viable candidates, them being so rare.

As for Amarrians/cloning, Royal Flesh only -really- applies to higher up Holders. I'm sure a mid-level Tash-Murkon wouldn't balk at the benefits of having a few clones around.

I'd probably liken it to how 90% of catholics still use birth control even though the Pope says it is forbidden.



Sabik now, Sabik forever

Oko Paal
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#12 - 2012-03-30 16:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Oko Paal
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
For the Amarrian's (highest population if you consider that both the Khanid and Ammatar have simular beliefs) cloning yourself (...)


Sorry if I go off topic here, but isn't Amarr Empire only the biggest one in terms of territory size and Minmatar, as a race, being the most numerous? Or I misread that somewhere (still trying to cope with the backstory well)...
Targuz Ulth
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-03-30 23:24:39 UTC
I have been looking for the lore to this question and how long does training take? If some one has prior experience from being a Navy Vet does this limit the time?

Also I have been looking or time lines, leading to the current in game year. I have found some here and there but they are usually broken down into race based time line. Is there some long post covering it?

One last high jack question, In eve what counts as a generation? I have heard it said some races live in to their early to mid 100's.

Thanks for your time, and sorry to dis-rail a bit, but I am looking to wirte a bio and try some RP.

Faith be with you, flay safe
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-04-04 06:24:51 UTC
Horatius Caul wrote:
You need physiological and genetic compatibility with capsule implants, and the mental fortitude to resist mindlock (where your consciousness can't resume control of your body after disconnecting from a starship). The real problem arises from the fact that there are very, very few institutions that regularly check for these things. You basically need to already be enrolled in one of the most prestigious schools in the universe to even qualify for testing to see if you're compatible.

I imagine the main exception would be people who are somehow identified as potential capsuleers outside the system and receive scholarships to one of the big academies pretty much just to be tested.

But yeah, a combination of compatibility issues and lack of institutions able or willing to perform those checks.


EDIT: There's also the small detail that, even though they might qualify, a lot of people probably don't want to become capsuleers at all. This would especially be true in the Amarr Empire, where there is a significant taboo against cloning.



Where can I read more about Mindlock. I've never heard of that before. Sounds interesting.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB

Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#15 - 2012-04-04 08:50:33 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
Horatius Caul wrote:
You need physiological and genetic compatibility with capsule implants, and the mental fortitude to resist mindlock (where your consciousness can't resume control of your body after disconnecting from a starship). The real problem arises from the fact that there are very, very few institutions that regularly check for these things. You basically need to already be enrolled in one of the most prestigious schools in the universe to even qualify for testing to see if you're compatible.

I imagine the main exception would be people who are somehow identified as potential capsuleers outside the system and receive scholarships to one of the big academies pretty much just to be tested.

But yeah, a combination of compatibility issues and lack of institutions able or willing to perform those checks.


EDIT: There's also the small detail that, even though they might qualify, a lot of people probably don't want to become capsuleers at all. This would especially be true in the Amarr Empire, where there is a significant taboo against cloning.



Where can I read more about Mindlock. I've never heard of that before. Sounds interesting.

The Jovian Wetgrave
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#16 - 2012-04-04 08:52:39 UTC
Targuz Ulth wrote:


Also I have been looking or time lines, leading to the current in game year. I have found some here and there but they are usually broken down into race based time line. Is there some long post covering it?


It's difficult to find, I agree.Blink
Terazul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-04-04 14:27:26 UTC
Well, consider for a moment that even one capsuleer is often a military asset equivalent to hundreds or thousands of regular, baseliner-piloted ships. It is, to my mind, not entirely too far-fetched to assume that player capsuleers are by and large all the capsuleers that exist. Keep in mind that there are a lot of people who still run missions for their respective faction, as is evidenced by the huge proportion of the population that never leaves high-sec (though granted, a number of them are miners, traders, researchers, et. al.).

Although I say this largely because having a mass of unnamed NPC capsuleers would dramatically reduce the mystique and prestige of being a capsuleer, something that is highly unappealing to me...
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-04-04 16:37:18 UTC
Horatius Caul wrote:
Montevius Williams wrote:
Horatius Caul wrote:
You need physiological and genetic compatibility with capsule implants, and the mental fortitude to resist mindlock (where your consciousness can't resume control of your body after disconnecting from a starship). The real problem arises from the fact that there are very, very few institutions that regularly check for these things. You basically need to already be enrolled in one of the most prestigious schools in the universe to even qualify for testing to see if you're compatible.

I imagine the main exception would be people who are somehow identified as potential capsuleers outside the system and receive scholarships to one of the big academies pretty much just to be tested.

But yeah, a combination of compatibility issues and lack of institutions able or willing to perform those checks.


EDIT: There's also the small detail that, even though they might qualify, a lot of people probably don't want to become capsuleers at all. This would especially be true in the Amarr Empire, where there is a significant taboo against cloning.



Where can I read more about Mindlock. I've never heard of that before. Sounds interesting.

The Jovian Wetgrave



Thanks!

Oh man, that sucks...Sounds like Locked in Syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locked-in_syndrome

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB

Targuz Ulth
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-04-05 03:41:32 UTC
Horatius Caul wrote:
Targuz Ulth wrote:


Also I have been looking or time lines, leading to the current in game year. I have found some here and there but they are usually broken down into race based time line. Is there some long post covering it?


It's difficult to find, I agree.Blink



Actually I found a massive time on including all races a few days ago, but I never thought of googling it lol. For some reason I was only finding it broken down by race, what ever.

But thanks again
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#20 - 2012-04-08 15:45:30 UTC
I would imagine that the single most limiting factor is the mental and physical compatibility for surviving the process of becoming a capsuleer.

I would argue that it is an expensive proposition, because my character started out his life of a capsuleer, having been a former slave child.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

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