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Blizzard does a Ubisoft?
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Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2011-09-25 14:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Herping yourDerp wrote:
its not like it wont be piratable. but DRM is the PC way, as consoles will soon have 1 time use codes to access the online portion ect.


The only thing companies do when they release their games with strings attached is motivate me to "obtain" and hack the program myself.

Is it right? No. Is what they are requiring of me right? No.

Do they have a right to do it? Yes, it's their software.
So what justifies my actions?

My action may be considered wrong, but where does one draw the line on the demands of a multi-billion dollar company?

Take a look through history at the actions taken by individuals and/or groups of people who are ignored that KNOW they have no chance to meet an opponent on equal ground. Dirty strong arm tactics require a dirty underhanded response.

The obvious retort is: "well don't play the game". And that is valid.
I say: "power to the people".
The very people, I might add, who have given these companies money time and again to make them what they are.

Today's corporate mindset doesn't seem to grasp that. Hell, look at CCP, we had to FORCE them not to ruin their own game. Until we hit them in the pocketbook they didn't give ONE GOD DAMN about what any of us wanted. The consumer rarely factors into the equation for corporations anymore.

Once they get your money it becomes a game of how much bullshit will the consumer put up with before they stop paying. It's a game of greed, power, control. The only thing on the mind of a 21st century CEO.

I'll gladly give them money for a product with no strings attached.
If that isn't an option I'll do everything in my power to motivate them to remove the strings.


Delete post, ban poster.

Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
I actually buy the stuff I enjoy.


So whether a company that invested money into creating a product deserves its due or not comes down to your personal preference?

That's a good idea, I need a new car maybe I will go out and TWOC a few to find one I like. I wont be hurting anyone they will get their car back......... eventually.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2011-09-25 16:38:17 UTC
We really only have pirates to thank for this issue.

Pirates think they are "sticking it to the man", but in fact they are merely doing EXACTLY what the man wants them to do.

Bill Gates wrote:
About 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.


By pirating software, instead of being viewed as customers, companies view you as potential sources of income. They don't care if you would have purchased the software or not had you pirated it - they only care if they can force you to pay them once you are "hooked".

If you REALLY want to stick it to the man, you should be using open source software - one of the reasons why Microsoft doesn't try very hard to crack down on piracy.

What we are seeing now is that "someday". More and more companies are turning to DRM, and the hope is that once every AAA game is burdened with DRM, a large portion of pirates who would never had purchased a video game before will now become a paying customer once their piracy is taken away.


The OTHER possibility is that this is a case of Blizzard trying to tell their customers what they want, sort of like CCP telling us that we want micro-transactions. Blizzard wants a slice of the social gaming pie (since social gaming beat the hell out of the AAA game industry last year), and in order to do so, they are trying to force their fans into social gaming.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2011-09-25 18:25:15 UTC
Taedrin wrote:
What we are seeing now is that "someday". More and more companies are turning to DRM, and the hope is that once every AAA game is burdened with DRM, a large portion of pirates who would never had purchased a video game before will now become a paying customer once their piracy is taken away.


They will never get rid of it, the best they could do is make it difficult for the average user. All that most "pirates" do is download it and read instructions on how to apply a crack or fix, or they download an already cracked version, if they can stop that by making it difficult for the cracked version or the cracks that get distributed by making it so you actually really know how to use a computer a big bulk of the piracy will dry up.
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#44 - 2011-09-25 19:42:15 UTC
Online DRM measures are certainly not nice, but preferable to the alternative and that is PC gaming dying off because no one wants to invest money into a game that takes several years to be developed only to be immediatly pirated.

That is also the reason why CCP is developing DUST514 as PS3 exclusive, rather then PC exclusive. I think we can all agree that the PC is in every way the superior platform but piracy threatens to kill PC gaming as a whole.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2011-09-25 23:36:34 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Online DRM measures are certainly not nice, but preferable to the alternative and that is PC gaming dying off because no one wants to invest money into a game that takes several years to be developed only to be immediatly pirated.

That is also the reason why CCP is developing DUST514 as PS3 exclusive, rather then PC exclusive. I think we can all agree that the PC is in every way the superior platform but piracy threatens to kill PC gaming as a whole.


PC gaming isn't dieing, its growing. Sales via Digital distribution on PC and Mac grew and MMO sales/subs also grew, retail boxes of games dropped though, obviously because of people ditching boxes in favour of services like Steam and Impulse. Gaming on social networking sites grew by a whopping 66%, and they still count as PCs. Console sales dropped a lot and overall game sales dropped by 2%.

Other areas of game sales grew to like mobile phone gaming, Casual portal gaming increased to as more people use PCs and portable devices to use flash games etc.

the 2010 statistics show that every type of gaming grew when console sales dropped sharply (by 29%), if the same happens this year you could say that consoles are dieing as everyone moves onto other forms of gaming on portable devices and social games like MMOs, and people will buy games via digital distribution.

On a side note I own a X Box and if a game comes out on console and PC I will always buy for the PC, why? because the graphics are better and console games cost more. Triple A games cost £30 on the PC yet on the console they are £40 or more.

That increase might also have something to do with the drop in Console sales.
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2011-09-26 02:07:39 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Online DRM measures are certainly not nice, but preferable to the alternative and that is PC gaming dying off...


PC gaming isn't dieing, its growing.


Right, but they grew with DRM being a major topic, and digital distribution receives payment before download.

You've typed a lot after quoting her but you haven't refuted what she said at all.



Game developers don't make games for free. At some point someone or some business group of some kind has to make an investment. No one is going to decide to invest in a product that people will then take for free and not buy.

When it comes to court cases people like to take the side of the individual and claim companies make up or exaggerate numbers when it comes to loss, but at some point you have to be realistic and accept that behind closed doors those same people have candid meetings where they would not exaggerate or lie, and have to drive their company. These discussions are going to include the projected profit loss caused by piracy.

PC gaming would most certainly die a horrible death and game development would become a hobby community rather than an industry, if companies could not profit from their games. Granted we're not anywhere near that point, but the idea stands.
If they can't make money with DRM because boycotts work and piracy catches up quickly, and they can't make money without DRM because piracy is rampant, that's where we'll be. As the cost to make games rises, DRM development costs rise, and the people pirating get better at cracking, we get closer and closer to that lose-lose situation for the bean counters.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#47 - 2011-09-26 10:38:55 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Herping yourDerp wrote:
its not like it wont be piratable. but DRM is the PC way, as consoles will soon have 1 time use codes to access the online portion ect.


The only thing companies do when they release their games with strings attached is motivate me to "obtain" and hack the program myself.

Is it right? No. Is what they are requiring of me right? No.

Do they have a right to do it? Yes, it's their software.
So what justifies my actions?

My action may be considered wrong, but where does one draw the line on the demands of a multi-billion dollar company?

Take a look through history at the actions taken by individuals and/or groups of people who are ignored that KNOW they have no chance to meet an opponent on equal ground. Dirty strong arm tactics require a dirty underhanded response.

The obvious retort is: "well don't play the game". And that is valid.
I say: "power to the people".
The very people, I might add, who have given these companies money time and again to make them what they are.

Today's corporate mindset doesn't seem to grasp that. Hell, look at CCP, we had to FORCE them not to ruin their own game. Until we hit them in the pocketbook they didn't give ONE GOD DAMN about what any of us wanted. The consumer rarely factors into the equation for corporations anymore.

Once they get your money it becomes a game of how much bullshit will the consumer put up with before they stop paying. It's a game of greed, power, control. The only thing on the mind of a 21st century CEO.

I'll gladly give them money for a product with no strings attached.
If that isn't an option I'll do everything in my power to motivate them to remove the strings.


Delete post, ban poster.

Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
I actually buy the stuff I enjoy.


So whether a company that invested money into creating a product deserves its due or not comes down to your personal preference?

That's a good idea, I need a new car maybe I will go out and TWOC a few to find one I like. I wont be hurting anyone they will get their car back......... eventually.


Anyone that can't differentiate between theft and copyright infringement is either trolling or so brutally challenged by the most basic of logic that they deserve pity, not a brow beating. Here is my pity:

I encourage you to read more.
Go and get the education that was so obviously denied you.

Until you do, remember the maxim wisely echoed by Abe Lincoln, Samuel Clemens and Groucho Marx:

"Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2011-09-26 10:51:14 UTC
Doesn't matter what you believe because the law says its theft, anyone doing it is therefore a thief. You cannot pick and choose which laws you choose you think is right, good luck spouting to the judge that it isn't theft so you plead not guilty.

The only thing you can do if your country's laws offend you enough is to move somewhere else, or you could join a lobby group I guess.

Piracy is like going into a restaurant and ordering a meal, the chefs and staff work hard and spend resources to make and serve that meal and then people like you say "oh I don't agree with your franchises business practice and the staff where slightly rude so I wont be paying"

If the product is so bad and the company that made it so evil why the **** bother with the product in the first place? Its been proved that piracy boycotts have the exact opposite effect, companies know roughly how many copies are pirated as they track bit torrent sites and all they see is demand for that product. This means that whatever you find so offensive wont be changed because they think people actually want that product.

If you really hate something so bad they only way to try and force a companies hand is to avoid it altogether, IMO people like you wont because its not some consumer dissatisfaction or moral crusade its all about getting a free lunch and the sense of entitlement.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#49 - 2011-09-26 10:59:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Doesn't matter what you believe because the law says its theft, anyone doing it is therefore a thief. You cannot pick and choose which laws you choose you think is right, good luck spouting to the judge that it isn't theft so you plead not guilty.


I was being nice before.

Look at the bolded part. This is what you don't seem to understand.

I'm guilty of copyright infringement, not theft. The fact you can't differentiate between these two is a terrible terrible face palm. Until you get that basic concept through your head, your going to continue looking like the village idiot.

No one stole a car, a more apt analogy would be you obtained plans for the car and built your own without permission.
No one walked into a restaurant and ordered food without paying, instead someone obtained the recipe and cooked their own version at home.
Get it now? It's a violation of intellectual property, not a theft of physical property. There is no physical property involved in copyright infringement.

Were your mother and father close relatives before they married?
Davelantor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2011-09-26 18:20:21 UTC
I for one would only play other video games when there is no internet connection .... Guess what i do when i have internet connection ;) ...






Watch porn :D
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-09-27 09:32:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
No one stole a car, a more apt analogy would be you obtained plans for the car and built your own without permission.
No one walked into a restaurant and ordered food without paying, instead someone obtained the recipe and cooked their own version at home.
Get it now? It's a violation of intellectual property, not a theft of physical property. There is no physical property involved in copyright infringement


You are the one that doesn't get it, if you sat and coded an entire game of your own and then installed some artistic or storyline based themes from another game that would be copyright infringement. You however take a complete game, you cut the locks off that are designed to stop people from using it without a licence and then play that game as the developers designed, that's copyright theft.

If you cannot see the difference you must be the inbred one.

It doesn't really matter though, you are thief with a sense of entitlement and will always continue to try and justify the way you behave.
nahtoh
Vega Farscape
#52 - 2011-09-28 00:38:17 UTC
VKhaun Vex wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

Is it right? No. Is what they are requiring of me right? No.

Do they have a right to do it? Yes, it's their software.


Yes+No = Pr1ncess Alia logic

They are putting out a product that they invested time and money into making. If youchoose not to buy it but to pirate an altered version of it for free. That is very simply wrong, legally and morally. You are stealing. In situations where you want to use a pirated version, nothing stops you from also buying a box copy to keep things honest and give them their due.

You won't though, will you?






Hell I had to use a cracked exe for crysis back in the day for my bought copy, there were also pretty persistent roumours that the cracked exe versions ran better than teh uncracked versions (don't know myself as having to jump through hoops to make teh fecking game run with a poss 3 weeks delay after i bought it with no garrentees it would never did get the uncracked version to bastarding well work).

Hell even steam has a offline mode (and this is how i get pretty much all of my PC games nowadays).
nahtoh
Vega Farscape
#53 - 2011-09-28 00:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: nahtoh
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
No one stole a car, a more apt analogy would be you obtained plans for the car and built your own without permission.
No one walked into a restaurant and ordered food without paying, instead someone obtained the recipe and cooked their own version at home.
Get it now? It's a violation of intellectual property, not a theft of physical property. There is no physical property involved in copyright infringement


You are the one that doesn't get it, if you sat and coded an entire game of your own and then installed some artistic or storyline based themes from another game that would be copyright infringement. You however take a complete game, you cut the locks off that are designed to stop people from using it without a licence and then play that game as the developers designed, that's copyright theft.

If you cannot see the difference you must be the inbred one.

It doesn't really matter though, you are thief with a sense of entitlement and will always continue to try and justify the way you behave.


Infringment, not the theft. Hell in teh UK its used to be ilegal not to allow copying of computer software for nackup purposes.

Theft is a spefic legal term as is copyright infringment (one is a criminal matter teh other is a civil matter).

Oh I would recomend reading the preface to the baen free libary for impact of copying for some actual figures for what can happen if you put stuff up for free or don't sweat copying that much.
Vicker Lahn'se
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2011-09-28 01:01:50 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Doesn't matter what you believe because the law says its theft, anyone doing it is therefore a thief. You cannot pick and choose which laws you choose you think is right, good luck spouting to the judge that it isn't theft so you plead not guilty.


I was being nice before.

Look at the bolded part. This is what you don't seem to understand.

I'm guilty of copyright infringement, not theft. The fact you can't differentiate between these two is a terrible terrible face palm. Until you get that basic concept through your head, your going to continue looking like the village idiot.

No one stole a car, a more apt analogy would be you obtained plans for the car and built your own without permission.
No one walked into a restaurant and ordered food without paying, instead someone obtained the recipe and cooked their own version at home.
Get it now? It's a violation of intellectual property, not a theft of physical property. There is no physical property involved in copyright infringement.

Were your mother and father close relatives before they married?


Perhaps we should have a look at the commonly accepted usage is of this word:

Dictionary.com wrote:

Theft:
noun
1. the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
2. an instance of this.
3. Archaic . something stolen.

Steal:
noun
verb (used with object)
1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2. to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
3. to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend.
4. to move, bring, convey, or put secretly or quietly; smuggle (usually followed by away, from, in, into, etc.): They stole the bicycle into the bedroom to surprise the child.
5. Baseball . (of a base runner) to gain (a base) without the help of a walk or batted ball, as by running to it during the delivery of a pitch.


Theft is the act of stealing. Stealing can be used to refer to the appropriation of ideas without right. Clearly, by the accepted meanings of these words, pirating a video game can be referred to as a form of theft.

It's understandable for you to have your own personal definitions for words, but it is obnoxious to try to force your definitions down other people's throats when your definitions differ from those used by the rest of society. Knock it off.
Sader Rykane
Midnight Sentinels
#55 - 2011-09-28 01:56:40 UTC
People actually played D2 offline?
nahtoh
Vega Farscape
#56 - 2011-09-28 02:00:20 UTC
Vicker Lahn'se wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Doesn't matter what you believe because the law says its theft, anyone doing it is therefore a thief. You cannot pick and choose which laws you choose you think is right, good luck spouting to the judge that it isn't theft so you plead not guilty.


I was being nice before.

Look at the bolded part. This is what you don't seem to understand.

I'm guilty of copyright infringement, not theft. The fact you can't differentiate between these two is a terrible terrible face palm. Until you get that basic concept through your head, your going to continue looking like the village idiot.

No one stole a car, a more apt analogy would be you obtained plans for the car and built your own without permission.
No one walked into a restaurant and ordered food without paying, instead someone obtained the recipe and cooked their own version at home.
Get it now? It's a violation of intellectual property, not a theft of physical property. There is no physical property involved in copyright infringement.

Were your mother and father close relatives before they married?


Perhaps we should have a look at the commonly accepted usage is of this word:

Dictionary.com wrote:

Theft:
noun
1. the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
2. an instance of this.
3. Archaic . something stolen.

Steal:
noun
verb (used with object)
1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2. to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
3. to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend.
4. to move, bring, convey, or put secretly or quietly; smuggle (usually followed by away, from, in, into, etc.): They stole the bicycle into the bedroom to surprise the child.
5. Baseball . (of a base runner) to gain (a base) without the help of a walk or batted ball, as by running to it during the delivery of a pitch.


Theft is the act of stealing. Stealing can be used to refer to the appropriation of ideas without right. Clearly, by the accepted meanings of these words, pirating a video game can be referred to as a form of theft.

It's understandable for you to have your own personal definitions for words, but it is obnoxious to try to force your definitions down other people's throats when your definitions differ from those used by the rest of society. Knock it off.


Its not legaly theft though, its copyright infringement...It does not matter how many unskible adverts that FACT/MPPA put on dvds etc. Until the law changes it still not legally theft as you have not deprived them of anything. its been duplicated.

You probably agree with the dipshit of a americain TV guy that refered to skiping adverts as "theft".
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#57 - 2011-09-28 03:52:01 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

If you cannot see the difference you must be the inbred one.


Nuh uh! u R

Jhagiti Tyran wrote:

It doesn't really matter though, you are A GLORIOUS LIBERATOR OF INFORMATION AND DATA with a sense of entitlement and will always continue to try and justify the way you behave.


well duh!
figure that out all by yourself?

let me guess....

you might have read the part of my post where I acknowledged what I do is technically wrong and proceed to justify it over and over and over again???
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