EVE General Discussion

Tell them 20 Mealstroms would instapop most of the other subcap ships they would have wanted to train?

The basic argument is that CERTAIN NEW PLAYERS put more stock in what EFT says is a bigger number than what actually flies, and are very very quick to dismiss the advice and experience of pilots who've been around long enough to know what's the better option. Reminding said people of this fact is the simplest thing to do. No need to be an ass, just gently remind them that, actually, you've been playing this game longer than they have, and you probably have a better idea of what's a good idea.

Specific counterpoints:

"I am gonna fly a Tengu"

Learn to actually PvP before you fly around a ship that costs a billion ISK to fiy properly. Alternatively, carebear.

"I would rather just fly frigates"

Admirable, actually. Train for battleships when you've maxed out frigate skills.

"I personally am just gonna do logistics"

Uh...wow? People actually want to fly logistics? Sounds like an ace pilot to me.

"I want a freighter"

Carebear.

"Have Nighthawk, don't need a battleship"

EFT more.

"Sleipnir does everything"

EFT more.

"I don't fly battleships"

Well what do you fly?

"I would train it but I need to get my elite certificates"

lol

"I would rather fly a Hulk"

Carebear.

"I am not in your corp"

I'm assuming this is an alliancemate? Talk to CEO?

"I think a Sac would be better than a battleship, no?"

EFT more.

"All I need is my Drake"

Is it a nanodrake? If it isn't, then EFT more.

"I fly the drake thats like a battleship"

EFT more.

"If Jeff is gonna fly a Drake so am I"

Jeff probably isn't the ranking FC in this conversation.

"Battleships are too slow"

Battleships aren't meant to be fast.

"MWD + Slasher, nuff said"

Kick from corp.

"I have Caldari Battleship, why do I need another BS?"

Torp ravens aren't terrible for POS bashes are they? I honestly don't know, the only caldari battleship I touch is the scorp.

"Only reason to train battleships is for carriers and I will never use one"

You've trained for them, might as well use them if the FC says to.

"It is suicide to fly a battleship outside of high-sec"

lol no

"I won't fly a battleship, cause I pay $15 a month, and you can't tell me what to train"

Kick from corp.

"In all seriousness... you can eat a bag of dicks"

Kick from corp.

"I won't train it, cause I don't want to train it"

Kick from corp.

I don't mean to tell you how to run your show, but to me this sounds largely like a discipline problem with your new pilots. The remainder just don't know any better, and a bit of time actually flying in space will learn them good. Or they'll refuse to join fleet ops because their ship is arse, and then you can call them on not pulling their weight.

Found your problem.

I probably went through the majority of those mindsets at one point or another during the early days of my Eve career. I think one of the defining make-or-break moments in every pilot's life is when he gives up on the dreams he had as a newbie. Whether it was "well it turns out assault frigates actually suck ****, so I'm going to stop buying Retributions," or "Wow, an Erebus is a lot further away than I thought," we've all had those moments. Give 'em some time, they'll come around.

Also keep in mind that even though Amarrian battleships are awesome, they don't perform as well as you'd hope when the pilot only has 3 mil sp. As long as they're training important core skills, it's all good. They'll get to battle ships eventually.

Exactly my thought - where have the times gone when people rushed towards battleships, flew them as soon as they could barely sit in them and lost them in hilarious ways - with small modules fitted?

Having that said, I wouldn't call them EFT warriors. An EFT warrior would rather go for a BS as the numbers for DPS, tank etc... are higher for a BS on paper and most newbs typically neglect large guns bad tracking, sig resolution, BS sig radius etc...

The fact that only rigging a BS costs as much as losing an entirely fitted BC may play a role, but otoh, you have tengu and sac-guy...

Although I'm quite surprised to see so many newbs not willing to fly BS, I think BS could use a little love - especially compared to Tier 2 BCs.

Because Battleships are not good for much more than gank 'n tank, scorpions excluded. They are meant to be used in fleet engagements which have unfortunately become dominated by super caps. Basically, Battleships are obsolete in today's New Eden.

I remember when I first started in '07 people were always rushing into Battleships, and usually failing because they never trained any core skills. They would never aim for anything else.

Times have changed...

Since this has basically my reasoning for the last three years…

…so? Why fly (much less train for) something you don't enjoy the feeling of? There are plenty of roles to be had (in fact, the vast majority in the game) from the sub-BS ships, all of which are pretty much universally needed.

So it doesn't really sound like you're offering much of a counter-argument to this. Is this because you see it as a valid reason or because you couldn't be arsed to develop your response more thoroughly?

the latter tbh

But you're absolutely right in that there's no point training for something you don't enjoy. And I'm sure you'll agree that, in an organized pvp-focused corp/alliance there's no point in keeping pilots around who don't pull their weight. v0v

Yes. Which has next to nothing to do with training battleships.

That coming from a member of one of the leading alliances in a coalition that used to be famous for its topsy-turvy rabble fleets is actually quite funny - but yeah - people might change...