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Small gang PvP: Pilgrim vs Curse
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Denuo Secus
#1 - 2011-09-25 19:49:12 UTC
Hi,

usually I fly ECM to support my small gang in PvP. What I leaned is that ECM scares off a lot of viable targets for us. A cloaky Falcon would solve that problem by appearing with some delay.

Now I want to try Amarr recons. Other than ECM they offer an additional benefit: with neuts they can stop opponents. Seems handy with alot of nano fitted ships out there.

My question: would you fly a Pilgrim for the same reason I'd use a Falcon - to hide this force multiplier as long as possible? I'd loose the ability to neut at 40km that way...which again is very nice to stop fast frigates and fast cruisers.

As I see it:

Curse is for distance fighting. Fast and with range. Able to catch and stop fast targets in a 40km bubble. At the same time it provides EW support against all turret based opponents. It adds damage with drones and maybe HMs in exchange for some neuts.

Pilgrim can be used at distance to provide EW support with TD. Also it adds some damage with drones. Maybe even by fitting some medium beam lasers. In case of neuts, they would be for self-defence only. Or - the Pilgrim could serve as short range ship. Heavy armor, neuts and drones. But I'm not sure if I want to maneuver a Recon into medium sized blob...

Any advice? Thanks!
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
#2 - 2011-09-25 20:40:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Aloe Cloveris
I find the Curse to be much more useful. Pilgrims just don't hold up to fire from more than one Drake very well (EVE is literally Drakes, Canes and Angel hulls Online), despite their decent resist profile.

With the Curse you're able to zap the guy from far out and TD his optimal down to nothing, shut off Invulns, and if anything posing a threat burns towards you, you can shut down their MWD with neuts and dictate range again while your buddies (and your bonused drones) wreck the badguys.

Pilgrim just requires you to get in too close for such a meager tank, and in my experience when a recon is directly in the middle of the fray like a Pilgrim needs be, they're generally the very first thing swiftly primaried and eliminated.
Giggins
Honey Badger Exloration inc.
#3 - 2011-09-25 21:59:19 UTC
if you thought ECM frightened off a lot of potential opponents wait till they see a Curse pop up on D scan :p
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-09-25 22:26:11 UTC
The Pilgrim is a bit of a niche role; the only decent uses I've found for it are for striking carebears in nullsec, sigtanking them while you're drones chew them up, then warping out and cloaking before anyone else shows up. (And if anything else does show up, you're pretty much dead.)

The Curse is better for just about everything else - it fights from a range, so has more disengagement capabilities, it can do more DPS if you throw some missile launchers on there, and it has more midslots to use for fleet TD support if needed.
Andrea Griffin
#5 - 2011-09-26 16:37:37 UTC
Giggins wrote:
if you thought ECM frightened off a lot of potential opponents wait till they see a Curse pop up on D scan :p
This, pretty much. A well flown Curse is an absolute terror on the field. A poorly flown Curse is still a pain in the rear. Switching from a Falcon to a Curse won't help you get any more fights.

The Pilgrim isn't very useful for gang work. While it can use the bonused TDs at range, it still needs to get very close to a target to make use of its neut bonus. Since many PvP ships already have energy neutralizers on them you're gaining very little by using a Pilgrim.

The neut range bonus of the Curse is what makes the ship viable for gangs. It can stay safe-ish and neut targets at range so that it can get out when needed. The Pilgrim can warp cloaked, but in a gang that generally isn't particularly useful.

You can still stick a cloak on a Curse if you want; it doesn't need to lock particularly quickly to do its job. It just needs to lock.

However, for solo work... The Pilgrim is just amazing against the right targets.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
sten mattson
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#6 - 2011-09-26 17:38:06 UTC
thep ilgrim has an aweseom tank if oyu fit it right , but what the people have said above is still true , to my despair , you need to get awfully close to apply the neuts

but if you have logis in gang , you should be alright

for number crunching , i get 35k ehp with all resists above 75% on my pilgrim, and that my solo fit!

also with 3 TDs you can reduce the turrets range on 3 ships down to nothing (especially gallente , but lazors might be hardest to reduce to less than 8k range with one TD...)

IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!
Satav
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-09-29 15:52:04 UTC
Denuo Secus wrote:
Hi,

usually I fly ECM to support my small gang in PvP. What I leaned is that ECM scares off a lot of viable targets for us. A cloaky Falcon would solve that problem by appearing with some delay.

Now I want to try Amarr recons. Other than ECM they offer an additional benefit: with neuts they can stop opponents. Seems handy with alot of nano fitted ships out there.

My question: would you fly a Pilgrim for the same reason I'd use a Falcon - to hide this force multiplier as long as possible? I'd loose the ability to neut at 40km that way...which again is very nice to stop fast frigates and fast cruisers.

As I see it:

Curse is for distance fighting. Fast and with range. Able to catch and stop fast targets in a 40km bubble. At the same time it provides EW support against all turret based opponents. It adds damage with drones and maybe HMs in exchange for some neuts.

Pilgrim can be used at distance to provide EW support with TD. Also it adds some damage with drones. Maybe even by fitting some medium beam lasers. In case of neuts, they would be for self-defence only. Or - the Pilgrim could serve as short range ship. Heavy armor, neuts and drones. But I'm not sure if I want to maneuver a Recon into medium sized blob...

Any advice? Thanks!


Curse all the way unless you're scouting for your gang. Use the Pilgrim in that case.

I preferr the Curse for several reasons.

(1) Its longer EW range.
(2) It is a tougher ship as all force recons are compared to their native recons.
(3) It is easy to play around with different fits on the curse due to its +1 high +1 mid - 1 low slot configuration compared to the pilgrim.

If you're worried about being primaried in a fight. may i suggest a few tactics.

(1) Always warp last in your gang
(2) if you camping gate/station sit just off grid aligned and can warp into the fight quickly at your choosing.

Hope this helps and good luck.

_______________________________________________________________________________

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