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Dec 20, the make or break date for CCP
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iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
#61 - 2011-09-25 21:05:18 UTC
if i remember right, there were several simillar threads to this at about the time Star Trek Online was being prepped for final release....
and that was yet another bag of epic fail.

as for TOR... it's a game about jedi & sith.

EvE is a game about Spaceships and capsuleers. There is a VAST difference between the two.

yes they are both sci-fi, but that is where the simillarity ends.

-Rok

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2011-09-25 21:06:34 UTC
Zendoren wrote:


Apparntly the economic downturn has not affected you good sir. Lol

The average Joe wont or cant afford playing multiple sub type MMOs, IMHO


Really? Compared to what everything else costs where I live an MMO is fairly cheap. As an example, one EVE account per month costs me about the same as 2 beers in town.

A whole other thing is the "downturn" alltogheter. Silly stuff. That is what you get when you put greedy bastards thinking only of lining their own pockets in charge though. We have great means of production, and a grea deal of resources avalable. Not to mention the manpower to use it. That is what incompetense in leaders gets you.
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#63 - 2011-09-25 21:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Zendoren
iyammarrok wrote:
if i remember right, there were several simillar threads to this at about the time Star Trek Online was being prepped for final release....
and that was yet another bag of epic fail.

as for TOR... it's a game about jedi & sith.

EvE is a game about Spaceships and capsuleers. There is a VAST difference between the two.

yes they are both sci-fi, but that is where the simillarity ends.

-Rok


A quick comment about the STO comparison. STO failed under its own merits. CCP did not steel the players back from STO, they came back willingly. Lol

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2011-09-25 21:13:40 UTC
Zendoren wrote:
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
I take it you have studied the material Bioware has released so far to make that ridiculous claim?

ToR appears to be nothing more than WoW in the SW universe with significantly overproduced "gameplay". They didn't even consider PvP as anything other than a side thing until in the 11th hour for Goddess sake, then they hired a more or less complete Dev team from a successful PvP (dead now though Smile) game to do it for them (PvP is by which ToR will live or die in the market).

Classes and sub-classes between the two sides are nearly identical except for a bit of flavouring,
Generic 3rd person ground based game,
Attack animations (we moan about ECM locking you out of the action, wait until that crap hits the news),
Theme-park,
Friggin tweens! (think Eve is immature at times?, think WoW morons who probably hasn't seen or read SW other than the new fail trilogy/comics).

I did read get my hopes up when I heard they hired the Warhammer team to code their pew but it seems like it is going to be a bunch of battleground affairs, nothing more .. been there, done that.

In short: Your claim is about as apt as a direct comparison between 2001: A Space Odyssey and Independence Day.


All apt description of 1/2 the game.

Like I said earlier, this is not WoW w/ light sabers. IMHO Lucus Arts learned their lessons with SWG and incorporated both a liner story line flavor and a sandbox flavor inside the same game.

BTW, SW;ToR will have a player ran market just like EVE. What that means, who knows... ???


I very much doubt they will have. They have not had PVP in their minds from the start, that means it will be a pretty shoddy thing, something half assed.

It is just a big wow clone in space designed to suck more money out of the star wars fan base, yet again. And giving nothing of worth the the players other then to tour soem representation of the SW universe. Kind of a single player thing.

Not to mention that they are somewhat limited in their game lore and mechanincs relations, where EVE is free to do what they want since they invented the lore for the game.

In EVE, the market works since we have losses of ships and other stuff. And it is all based around PVP at is core.
Mister Smithington
#65 - 2011-09-25 21:19:42 UTC
Zendoren wrote:
iyammarrok wrote:
if i remember right, there were several simillar threads to this at about the time Star Trek Online was being prepped for final release....
and that was yet another bag of epic fail.

as for TOR... it's a game about jedi & sith.

EvE is a game about Spaceships and capsuleers. There is a VAST difference between the two.

yes they are both sci-fi, but that is where the simillarity ends.

-Rok


A quick comment about the STO comparison. STO failed under its own merits. CCP did not steel the players back from STO, they came back willingly. Lol

I have every faith that ToR will fail under it's own merits. Bioware deliberately copied the WoW gameplay schema claiming that WoW set the industry standard and doing anything else is a mistake.

maybe pressing 1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2,4 and calling it "gameplay" was acceptable 6 years ago, but the industry is moving on, and Bioware isn't moving with it.

And as a quick aside, I love Star Wars, but it isn't Science Fiction. I'm sorry if that hurts to hear. A story about a boy who learns the forgotten magic arts of the knights of an ancient kingdom from a wise old mentor and goes forth to do battle against the forces of evil is Fantasy. It's about as Fantasy as Fantasy gets. Spaceships do not define the Science Fiction genre. Star Wars is as much Science Fiction as Lord of the Rings.
Froz3nEcho Sarain
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2011-09-25 21:20:34 UTC
Lol with '20 dec' I thought I were referring to the balance patch coming this winter. The new Star-Wars game is just a hype that will last for like 3 a 5 years before they kill their own game again.

[i]~ When everything fades away, an echo is the only sound that will remain ~   ~ Chaos is a name for any order that produces confusion in our minds ~[/i]
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#67 - 2011-09-25 21:22:02 UTC
Sidus Isaacs wrote:
Zendoren wrote:
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
I take it you have studied the material Bioware has released so far to make that ridiculous claim?

ToR appears to be nothing more than WoW in the SW universe with significantly overproduced "gameplay". They didn't even consider PvP as anything other than a side thing until in the 11th hour for Goddess sake, then they hired a more or less complete Dev team from a successful PvP (dead now though Smile) game to do it for them (PvP is by which ToR will live or die in the market).

Classes and sub-classes between the two sides are nearly identical except for a bit of flavouring,
Generic 3rd person ground based game,
Attack animations (we moan about ECM locking you out of the action, wait until that crap hits the news),
Theme-park,
Friggin tweens! (think Eve is immature at times?, think WoW morons who probably hasn't seen or read SW other than the new fail trilogy/comics).

I did read get my hopes up when I heard they hired the Warhammer team to code their pew but it seems like it is going to be a bunch of battleground affairs, nothing more .. been there, done that.

In short: Your claim is about as apt as a direct comparison between 2001: A Space Odyssey and Independence Day.


All apt description of 1/2 the game.

Like I said earlier, this is not WoW w/ light sabers. IMHO Lucus Arts learned their lessons with SWG and incorporated both a liner story line flavor and a sandbox flavor inside the same game.

BTW, SW;ToR will have a player ran market just like EVE. What that means, who knows... ???


I very much doubt they will have. They have not had PVP in their minds from the start, that means it will be a pretty shoddy thing, something half assed.

It is just a big wow clone in space designed to suck more money out of the star wars fan base, yet again. And giving nothing of worth the the players other then to tour soem representation of the SW universe. Kind of a single player thing.

Not to mention that they are somewhat limited in their game lore and mechanincs relations, where EVE is free to do what they want since they invented the lore for the game.

In EVE, the market works since we have losses of ships and other stuff. And it is all based around PVP at is core.


Like I said earlier, i would not have posted this unless i was concerned for EVE after playing Bata.

As we all know, supply and demand runs a player run market. There is no point having a market if it has flat demand from the game play style like you said. What i was hinting that with that last link about that comment is that there will be demand on PVP servers.

BTW, there are split servers between PVE and PVP so at-least eve has that going for it! ^_^

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#68 - 2011-09-25 21:24:11 UTC
Zendoren wrote:
...BTW, SW;ToR will have a player ran market just like EVE. What that means, who knows... ???

You do realise that the totally unbiased and 100% dedicated MMORPG media outlets consider something like WoW's auction house a "player driven market" right?

Just sayin' ..

You have probably played a few MMO's, try going back and read their promotional material and the various reviews/previews of the same game .. damn man, some of them proclaim they are sandbox games because they have multiple-choice scenarios .. hahahaha.
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#69 - 2011-09-25 21:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zendoren
Mister Smithington wrote:
Zendoren wrote:
iyammarrok wrote:
if i remember right, there were several simillar threads to this at about the time Star Trek Online was being prepped for final release....
and that was yet another bag of epic fail.

as for TOR... it's a game about jedi & sith.

EvE is a game about Spaceships and capsuleers. There is a VAST difference between the two.

yes they are both sci-fi, but that is where the simillarity ends.

-Rok


A quick comment about the STO comparison. STO failed under its own merits. CCP did not steel the players back from STO, they came back willingly. Lol

I have every faith that ToR will fail under it's own merits. Bioware deliberately copied the WoW gameplay schema claiming that WoW set the industry standard and doing anything else is a mistake.

maybe pressing 1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2,4 and calling it "gameplay" was acceptable 6 years ago, but the industry is moving on, and Bioware isn't moving with it.

And as a quick aside, I love Star Wars, but it isn't Science Fiction. I'm sorry if that hurts to hear. A story about a boy who learns the forgotten magic arts of the knights of an ancient kingdom from a wise old mentor and goes forth to do battle against the forces of evil is Fantasy. It's about as Fantasy as Fantasy gets. Spaceships do not define the Science Fiction genre. Star Wars is as much Science Fiction as Lord of the Rings.


And pressing F1 - F8 is not. Lol

We can argue the potential success and failure of SW:tor until the cows come home. One thing is for sure, SW:TOR has alot of potential and with it, a lot of excitement to which EVE does not have atm.

BTW, you might want to call netflix, blockbuster, ect and tell them to move starwars from the Sci-Fi shelf to the fantasy shelf then. Lol

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?
beor oranes
Annihilate.
#70 - 2011-09-25 21:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: beor oranes
To be honest the only MMO on the horizon that I am really looking forward too and will (if I'm still playing by then) take a break from playing Eve is Warhammer 40k : Dark Millennium Online, however that has a release date in 2013 so CCP have a couple years before they lose my very, very important couple of subs.

Edit: Eve will only really start to struggle when another MMO comes out in which most combat takes place in a vehicle (ground/air/space) and not with swords or guns, when it is single server and not multiple and when you die (in PvE or PvP) you actually lose what you had and not just experience points. I don't think Eve will ever be as mainstream as most of the others just because it has consequences when you lose at something, that is a massive turn off for most people.

I remember when I was first playing and I was in a corp who mainly did missions, a dude lost his very nicely fit Raven in a mission to a disconnect and he didn't log on for about 3 weeks and when he did he said he almost cancelled his sub. He never PvP'd cos he never wanted to lose anything. If you remove the consequences of losing from Eve it would attract more people who like WoW and similar MMO's but you would kill Eve in the process.
London
Center for Advanced Studies
#71 - 2011-09-25 21:29:46 UTC
Zendoren wrote:


We can argue the potential success and failure of SW:tor until the cows come home. One thing is for sure, SW:TOR has alot of potential and with it, a lot of excitement to which EVE does not have atm.


Your opinion, I see things turning around beautifully for EVE. I'm excited for the winter expansion, ship/weapon re-balance and CCP's generally renewed focus. I will also be playing TOR over xmas, but I know I'll get bored of that 'safe' environment while EVE continually holds my interests since 2003.
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#72 - 2011-09-25 21:34:13 UTC
London wrote:
Zendoren wrote:


We can argue the potential success and failure of SW:tor until the cows come home. One thing is for sure, SW:TOR has alot of potential and with it, a lot of excitement to which EVE does not have atm.


Your opinion, I see things turning around beautifully for EVE. I'm excited for the winter expansion, ship/weapon re-balance and CCP's generally renewed focus. I will also be playing TOR over xmas, but I know I'll get bored of that 'safe' environment while EVE continually holds my interests since 2003.



:deliver:

Talk is cheep, See this thread as an example. Lol

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?
Yasumoto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2011-09-25 21:41:36 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
SWTOR = Mass
EVE = Niche

They're aiming at different audiences.

At least SWTOR will discourage the higher ups at CCP from aiming at the lowest common denominator mass market too much.
CCP is already there with their NEX store pricing. The unwashed masses wouldn't even contemplate paying those kinds of prices for clothing that only sticks with one Jump Clone.
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#74 - 2011-09-25 22:03:11 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
I've played the Beta of SWTOR.

Its WoW but with lightsabers and Real Voice Artists and thats it.

The graphics are sucky, you have your usual DPS/Tank/Healer/Glass Canon characters, you usuall go and kill x of these guys, go and collect x of these items.

The only MMO's who will lose players are those who follow the WoW model.


While I am slightly turned off by this aspect, I hear you do get your own starship, where you'll meet your companions and what-not. I think I recall this was one of the features in STO, but I'm a bigger fan of the SW Universe.

I think it would be a mistake not to experience it though. Again, it's BioWare!
Mister Smithington
#75 - 2011-09-25 22:12:26 UTC
Zendoren wrote:
Mister Smithington wrote:

I have every faith that ToR will fail under it's own merits. Bioware deliberately copied the WoW gameplay schema claiming that WoW set the industry standard and doing anything else is a mistake.

maybe pressing 1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2,4 and calling it "gameplay" was acceptable 6 years ago, but the industry is moving on, and Bioware isn't moving with it.

And as a quick aside, I love Star Wars, but it isn't Science Fiction. I'm sorry if that hurts to hear. A story about a boy who learns the forgotten magic arts of the knights of an ancient kingdom from a wise old mentor and goes forth to do battle against the forces of evil is Fantasy. It's about as Fantasy as Fantasy gets. Spaceships do not define the Science Fiction genre. Star Wars is as much Science Fiction as Lord of the Rings.


And pressing F1 - F8 is not. Lol

We can argue the potential success and failure of SW:tor until the cows come home. One thing is for sure, SW:TOR has alot of potential and with it, a lot of excitement to which EVE does not have atm.

BTW, you might want to call netflix, blockbuster, ect and tell them to move starwars from the Sci-Fi shelf to the fantasy shelf then. Lol

Yeah, I figured that was coming. I'm not going to defend in depth Eve gameplay to Eve players, but keep in mind that Eve is a few years older even than WoW.

You can strap all the bells and whistles you want around crappy gameplay, but it still makes for a crappy gaming experience. If the core mechanics of the game are not fun, the game is not fun. With a legacy game like Eve or WoW, you really have to look at the state of the industry when the game was designed before you make judgements. But there's no excuse for designing a new game from scratch today around the mechanics of six-year-old WoW and the tank-heals-dps trinity of ancient Everquest.

You're right, there's a distinct lack of excitement about Eve at the moment, and a big part of that is due to boring old gameplay. That's why there's so much angst about PoSes and the industry interface. It may have been fine years ago, but these days we've come to expect a little more streamlining. This is especially true for the high-sec mission running carebears you mentioned earlier, as the only part of the game they experience is the worst Eve has to offer, namely the horrible PvE.

With ToR priding itself on having recycled the industry giant's crappy old gameplay, I don't see it holding a significant population for very long. You can't convince me that the thing Eve players in particular are craving is MORE crappy recycled gameplay.
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
#76 - 2011-09-25 22:24:04 UTC
I'l be playing it, and i won't be playing eve. Why? Because although eve's "sandbox" is a better concept, the reality is very different. Numerous game breaking bugs, shoddy code bolted on and called "expansions", complete **** of lore with no alternative explanations given, the "cash cow" issue, 18months taken to produce a VERY poor example of a room.

Add to that the fact that in this "sandbox", there is no real freedom. Any time an advantage is gained, some setup/ship is found to be powerful, or some scam is found to be effective, CCP steps in and moves the goalposts. You don't have a sandbox, you've got a normal MMO with some sand thrown in your eyes.

So, since i can't have a sandbox, i'l just stop wasting my time on this pretender. After 4 years, I'm done with eve, and i couldn't be happier. Smile
Flamespar
WarRavens
#77 - 2011-09-26 01:14:26 UTC
EVE players will play one of their instanced flying-on-rails space levels and come straight back to EVE.
Kern Hotha
#78 - 2011-09-26 04:39:48 UTC
I'm in the TOR beta test and can assure you that CCP has absolutely nothing to fear from TOR.

We distinguish the excellent man from the common man by saying that the former is the one who makes great demands upon himself, and the latter who makes no demands on himself.

Jose Ortega y Gasset (1883 - 1955)
Commander Criton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2011-09-26 04:55:50 UTC
Kern Hotha wrote:
I'm in the TOR beta test and can assure you that CCP has absolutely nothing to fear from TOR.


100% Agree. Eve and TOR have very little in common the sandbox side of TOR is a little shallow and we are yet to see how they pad that out if the go the route of paid expansions like I think they will it will not keep eve fans playing TOR. I will be playing both until I get bored of TOR.
Abominare
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#80 - 2011-09-26 05:23:28 UTC
They're two completely different genres of scifi mmo. I doubt ccp will see much of a long term impact from swtor, one is a space flgith mmo, the other is a bunch of person playing wow with light sabers. Is there cross over? Sure, but they aren't exclusive or even competing. The limited space pew pew of SW is actually exceptionally rare missions where you fight "on rails" sort of like the old starfox for n64, its not even pvp capable. For those who dont understand, you basically have next to zero control of the movement of your ship and you click to shoot at things that show up in front of you until theyre dead.

The actual content is styled after wow with currently zero end game content, meaning once you hit the level cap theres nothing to do but craft and sell in the auction how.

Played the beta, trust me wow with light sabers if thats your thing go for it, expect the same styled battlegrounds type pvp.