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My Apology

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Notorious BIG
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#3841 - 2012-03-28 19:45:35 UTC
Allataria wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Yup after seeing the Response of the Goons and Alts and pets.

Ban Alex from the game is the minimum now.

From just step down from CSM to Ban.




You cant ban someone for things said outside of the game. EULA and ToS does not apply to things done outside of the game environment.

Im sorry Wis but greifing other players is every pvp players given right. I am horrified to what would happen to EVE if a censor ban was put in to place where we cant give other players crap for being stupid and losing horribly in the game. Its what makes this game great and fun to play in as a pvper.



Go read the Ban policy section Section 3 HARASSMENT

This counts in and outside of the game.
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#3842 - 2012-03-28 19:46:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:


Not everyone saw the stream, was back from fanfest themselves.

Second is that we only found out the next day he won after he blew it etc.

And there were people saying things day 1.

But lies of a goon pet alt are nothing new.


The people who did see it live and were there said nothing other than how bad everyone but the WH guys was and how drunk people were.

This was not an issue untill after the announcement. Lie all you want about the timeline it doesnt change the fact that the very people outraged by this are the ones brining ever more attention to Wis and his mail as well as doing the very thing to mitani that outraged them in the first place on a much bigger level.

True dat.

Also, I miss the spam about Michael Bolton being so wasted he couldnt stand.
Allataria
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#3843 - 2012-03-28 19:46:15 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Allataria wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Yup after seeing the Response of the Goons and Alts and pets.

Ban Alex from the game is the minimum now.

From just step down from CSM to Ban.




You cant ban someone for things said outside of the game. EULA and ToS does not apply to things done outside of the game environment.

Im sorry Wis but greifing other players is every pvp players given right. I am horrified to what would happen to EVE if a censor ban was put in to place where we cant give other players crap for being stupid and losing horribly in the game. Its what makes this game great and fun to play in as a pvper.


I think you find that because it was at an official CCP Event, being streamed to thousands of players then CCP can do what it likes.

In the grand schemes of the the EULA/TOS mean ****. If CCP want to ban you then can and will.

Some people need to realise something about the EULA/TOS, it gives CCP the right to do what ever they like, end off.

On the flip side I agree with you to a point about what goes on in game.


Even so if they banned the Mittani they would lose all credibility of being a respected and fair judging corporation. The EULA and ToS are in there not only to protect the company but to protect the players as well. I cant see them bending the rules to ban someone for simply speaking out at an event. This would be like banning two players for fighting at fanfest because they dont like each other's alliances. There was no breach of game rules because this happened outside of the game. They can't do anything about it. The same reason why they cant help people who get scammed if all the dialogue happened out of the game under different handles. CCP's role as a moderator in what went on can only pertain to the events happening in the game. Yes this happened at a CCP event but the EULA and ToS only pertain to what happens in the game. As far as I know there is no agreement or ToS regarding what you can or cant say during these events. If there was then they probably shouldnt have handed out huge amounts of alochol to the player base because how could they not have seen that something like this has happened before or would have happened now?
Kallynda Nai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3844 - 2012-03-28 19:48:32 UTC
Notorious BIG wrote:
Allataria wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Yup after seeing the Response of the Goons and Alts and pets.

Ban Alex from the game is the minimum now.

From just step down from CSM to Ban.




You cant ban someone for things said outside of the game. EULA and ToS does not apply to things done outside of the game environment.

Im sorry Wis but greifing other players is every pvp players given right. I am horrified to what would happen to EVE if a censor ban was put in to place where we cant give other players crap for being stupid and losing horribly in the game. Its what makes this game great and fun to play in as a pvper.



Go read the Ban policy section Section 3 HARASSMENT

This counts in and outside of the game.

No it doesn't.
Ice Fist
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3845 - 2012-03-28 19:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ice Fist
Whoops, Don't know what happened to my original post, it got nuked.
Suicide Counsellor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3846 - 2012-03-28 19:50:06 UTC
i think is time for everyone to calm down
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3847 - 2012-03-28 19:50:44 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Yup after seeing the Response of the Goons and Alts and pets.

Ban Alex from the game is the minimum now.

From just step down from CSM to Ban.



It's a good thing that account actions are not a democratic process then, isn't it?

Because he's not going to get banned, deal with it~

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#3848 - 2012-03-28 19:51:32 UTC
Allataria wrote:


You cant ban someone for things said outside of the game.


Sure you can. First of all there is a catch-all that allows CCP to ban anyone from the game for any reason or no reason at all. So if I walked up to Helgar and started screaming in his face about him being a ***** and ********* and &!@$&!@$&!@$&!!! he could have me banned from Eve without any problem at all. I'd have no recourse either. But that aside, there's also the requirements for being a CSM:

They are also expected to adhere to the EULA/TOS and carry themselves in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM

Do you really think his behaviour constituted "carrying himself in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow", in CCP's opinion? I very much doubt it.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Boz Wel
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3849 - 2012-03-28 19:53:53 UTC
I'm amazed people are so "outraged" by this. Who even really cares. It was a tasteless joke, but it was obviously a joke. No rational person thinks that Mittens was actively attempting to get someone to kill himself. If I got an rambling email from a 23 account holding Mackinaw pilot on the verge of suicide because mining space rocks with 23 accounts is all that makes him happy in life... I'd probably make a tasteless joke as well, because let's face it - that's pretty pathetic.

Now, it's horribly unprofessional to make such a joke in a drunken stupor at Fanfest to a group of other players. Still, Mittens has apologized for it and taken actions to attempt to make up for that. Still, you have to keep things in perspective. This was a tasteless joke and no more. Calling for the guy's head in game in the way of bans and what not is ridiculous.
NamingViolation
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3850 - 2012-03-28 19:54:00 UTC
Allataria wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Allataria wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Yup after seeing the Response of the Goons and Alts and pets.

Ban Alex from the game is the minimum now.

From just step down from CSM to Ban.




You cant ban someone for things said outside of the game. EULA and ToS does not apply to things done outside of the game environment.

Im sorry Wis but greifing other players is every pvp players given right. I am horrified to what would happen to EVE if a censor ban was put in to place where we cant give other players crap for being stupid and losing horribly in the game. Its what makes this game great and fun to play in as a pvper.


I think you find that because it was at an official CCP Event, being streamed to thousands of players then CCP can do what it likes.

In the grand schemes of the the EULA/TOS mean ****. If CCP want to ban you then can and will.

Some people need to realise something about the EULA/TOS, it gives CCP the right to do what ever they like, end off.

On the flip side I agree with you to a point about what goes on in game.


Even so if they banned the Mittani they would lose all credibility of being a respected and fair judging corporation. The EULA and ToS are in there not only to protect the company but to protect the players as well. I cant see them bending the rules to ban someone for simply speaking out at an event. This would be like banning two players for fighting at fanfest because they dont like each other's alliances. There was no breach of game rules because this happened outside of the game. They can't do anything about it. The same reason why they cant help people who get scammed if all the dialogue happened out of the game under different handles. CCP's role as a moderator in what went on can only pertain to the events happening in the game. Yes this happened at a CCP event but the EULA and ToS only pertain to what happens in the game. As far as I know there is no agreement or ToS regarding what you can or cant say during these events. If there was then they probably shouldnt have handed out huge amounts of alochol to the player base because how could they not have seen that something like this has happened before or would have happened now?

Get real this is way beyond "someone for simply speaking out at an event" Mittani litterally encouraged people to help him provoke a guy to suicide" That is illegal in most countries and VERY different from just speaking up.

You know you are not really helping trying to make Mittens look innocent... u r just fueling the flames and feeding the trolls.

MIttens is a bastard and goons are a bunch of bastards - so what thats how they choose to play Eve, the only error he made is to actually encourage ppl to provoke suicide, rest is just epic Eve saga
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#3851 - 2012-03-28 19:54:40 UTC
Andski wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Yup after seeing the Response of the Goons and Alts and pets.

Ban Alex from the game is the minimum now.

From just step down from CSM to Ban.



It's a good thing that account actions are not a democratic process then, isn't it?

Because he's not going to get banned, deal with it~


If a ban is the minimum now, I wonder what MakeupOperator thinks should be the maximum?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#3852 - 2012-03-28 19:54:47 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Allataria wrote:


You cant ban someone for things said outside of the game.


Sure you can. First of all there is a catch-all that allows CCP to ban anyone from the game for any reason or no reason at all. So if I walked up to Helgar and started screaming in his face about him being a ***** and ********* and &!@$&!@$&!@$&!!! he could have me banned from Eve without any problem at all. I'd have no recourse either. But that aside, there's also the requirements for being a CSM:

They are also expected to adhere to the EULA/TOS and carry themselves in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM

Do you really think his behaviour constituted "carrying himself in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow", in CCP's opinion? I very much doubt it.

You mean we cant have fun or consume alcohol while playing? There goes the entire playerbase then...
Volster
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#3853 - 2012-03-28 19:55:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Volster
if anything, the only bits i could ccp realisticly doing would be to accept his resignation from the csm and / or not invite him to speak at future fanfests. banning him from the game would be a massive overreacton from ccp's end, as ultimatly they have to look at the facts of what actually happened rather than taking into account any personal feelings of his playstyle.

like it or not,the ice interdiction was entirely withing game mechanics, and (apart from petitions) there's no rule against publishing communiction that someones chosen to send you. ultimatly all they have to act on is him encouraging others to harrass this person, and even then it was only in the form of "if you want to" rather than an active encouragment, so at worst he ought to be given a warning.
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3854 - 2012-03-28 19:55:55 UTC
Boz Wel wrote:
I'm amazed people are so "outraged" by this. Who even really cares. It was a tasteless joke, but it was obviously a joke. No rational person thinks that Mittens was actively attempting to get someone to kill himself. If I got an rambling email from a 23 account holding Mackinaw pilot on the verge of suicide because mining space rocks with 23 accounts is all that makes him happy in life... I'd probably make a tasteless joke as well, because let's face it - that's pretty pathetic.

Now, it's horribly unprofessional to make such a joke in a drunken stupor at Fanfest to a group of other players. Still, Mittens has apologized for it and taken actions to attempt to make up for that. Still, you have to keep things in perspective. This was a tasteless joke and no more. Calling for the guy's head in game in the way of bans and what not is ridiculous.



+1

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3855 - 2012-03-28 19:56:41 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Andski wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Yup after seeing the Response of the Goons and Alts and pets.

Ban Alex from the game is the minimum now.

From just step down from CSM to Ban.



It's a good thing that account actions are not a democratic process then, isn't it?

Because he's not going to get banned, deal with it~


If a ban is the minimum now, I wonder what MakeupOperator thinks should be the maximum?


What ever CCP decides beyond that.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Voull
Visional
#3856 - 2012-03-28 19:56:57 UTC
Why is this thread still going? Do people honestly think it is acceptable to belittle someone and attempt to push them to suicide?

Grow up.
Altimo
Kitchen Sink Kapitals
#3857 - 2012-03-28 19:57:04 UTC
The Wis wrote:
OK.. I really do not know what to say. I am at a loss for words with all that is going on.

I guess I should say that this is not about someone alt in eve.
This is not about someone losing isks they worked for.
This is not about someone losing a machanaw in the game.
This is not something I started. I was really shocked to see the video monday night when I finaly had time.

This is all really about a person that is over joyed in making some one hurt as much as they can in real life not in game.
Going by his power point I have to say he thought about it long before getting drunk.
If thowing my name out there was something he planed to do or not that I can not say, and we will never know for sure.
But when reflect the way he talked about my mail. I am sure that was an option he was holding on to and tossing up becouse he was really enjoying tomenting someone.

I am sorry this is not the alt in the game that is talk but the person playing the alt.

There are allot of people out there that have real life problems, but they are warned when they join Eve. Whats said and done in the game doesn't bother me, its all part of Eve.

To me this **** got real and hurt full when I watched a video where a complete stranger urged other complete strangers to try make me kill myself.



The Wis



Then don't post personal information about your self to strangers, its not rocket science its common sense. That goes for anyone really.

This is a game where people don't take other in game characters seriously. Now look, he did not state your real name, but the personae your playing as in game.

You know it takes more balls to apologize in front of thousands of people as a real person giving your real name, then it does to simply hide behind those people crying about an issue that never had to exist in the first place.

It also takes more courage to forgive in some cases then it does to simply continue hating on someone that ultimately resulted in something you did. No one asked you to send that eve mail, and to the most notorious group known as the GOON SWARM what the hell kind of response did you think you were gonna get?

Its like poking a hornets nest and wondering why you got stung... oh wait.
Alexander Taos
Falco Industries
#3858 - 2012-03-28 19:58:09 UTC
The Wis wrote:
OK.. I really do not know what to say. I am at a loss for words with all that is going on.

I guess I should say that this is not about someone alt in eve.
This is not about someone losing isks they worked for.
This is not about someone losing a machanaw in the game.
This is not something I started. I was really shocked to see the video monday night when I finaly had time.

This is all really about a person that is over joyed in making some one hurt as much as they can in real life not in game.
Going by his power point I have to say he thought about it long before getting drunk.
If thowing my name out there was something he planed to do or not that I can not say, and we will never know for sure.
But when reflect the way he talked about my mail. I am sure that was an option he was holding on to and tossing up becouse he was really enjoying tomenting someone.

I am sorry this is not the alt in the game that is talk but the person playing the alt.

There are allot of people out there that have real life problems, but they are warned when they join Eve. Whats said and done in the game doesn't bother me, its all part of Eve.

To me this **** got real and hurt full when I watched a video where a complete stranger urged other complete strangers to try make me kill myself.



The Wis


When you accepted the apology, did you feel it was real? Is the 10.7 billion ISK you were given make up for things?

Do you think anyone should be banned? Have you had any other conversations with the mitanni over it?
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3859 - 2012-03-28 19:58:48 UTC
Voull wrote:
Why is this thread still going? Do people honestly think it is acceptable to belittle someone and attempt to push them to suicide?

Grow up.


Apparently the goons and friends do in fact think that way.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3860 - 2012-03-28 19:59:12 UTC
Voull wrote:
Why is this thread still going? Do people honestly think it is acceptable to belittle someone and attempt to push them to suicide?

Grow up.



I dont think its right to belittle someone who is genuinely depressed and suicidal.

But if someone is crying and threatening to kill themselves over a video game. they are just looking for attention.

Attention whores DESERVE to be belittled and teased and pointed/laughed at.

FC, what do?