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Tracking enhancer with artillery

Author
Babar Baboli
Walrus Mafia
The Initiative.
#1 - 2012-03-28 13:46:18 UTC
I'm thinking about using artillery instead of ac's on my maelstrom.

If my optimal is some between 22-38km, will tracking enhancers be useful or can I switch them to more gyros?
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-03-28 13:53:34 UTC
I am guessing this is for PvE? Correct me if I am wrong.

Tracking Enhancers are always useful on any turret ship. They increase optimal and falloff which, as you are flying a Minmatar ship, is very, very useful.

The quicker you can kill things when they are far away, the less you need to micro manage your tank.

I would never fit more than 3 Gyros as there's a stacking penalty that makes the 4th Gyro really not worth fitting.
Babar Baboli
Walrus Mafia
The Initiative.
#3 - 2012-03-28 13:56:20 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
I am guessing this is for PvE? Correct me if I am wrong.

Tracking Enhancers are always useful on any turret ship. They increase optimal and falloff which, as you are flying a Minmatar ship, is very, very useful.

The quicker you can kill things when they are far away, the less you need to micro manage your tank.

I would never fit more than 3 Gyros as there's a stacking penalty that makes the 4th Gyro really not worth fitting.


Yes, it's for PvE.
Didn't think of the stacking penalty :(

But, do I really need that high optimal?
i.e. I find it very rare that targets are further away than 40km and it makes it even easier to get "under my guns" for cruisers and frigs.
Tenga Halaris
Galactic Traders Union
#4 - 2012-03-28 14:08:41 UTC
Increased optimal range means, that you can hit with full damage up to this Range. Tracking improves the Ability to hit moving, especially orbiting Targets.

You can't hit Frigates because they underfly your tracking, not your optimal. This is why you have Close- and Lomgrange Weapons. Closerange have better tracking, but less Optimal and vice versa.
Babar Baboli
Walrus Mafia
The Initiative.
#5 - 2012-03-28 14:10:07 UTC
Tenga Halaris wrote:
Increased optimal range means, that you can hit with full damage up to this Range. Tracking improves the Ability to hit moving, especially orbiting Targets.

You can't hit Frigates because they underfly your tracking, not your optimal. This is why you have Close- and Lomgrange Weapons. Closerange have better tracking, but less Optimal and vice versa.


Thank you for clearing that up :)
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-03-28 14:21:54 UTC
even large artillery should hit approaching frigates well enough up to about 20km. anything that comes through will be eaten by light drones.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Alara IonStorm
#7 - 2012-03-28 14:37:23 UTC
The major problem I found with an Arty Maelstrom is Elite Cruiser NPC's (The 300k ISK ones). Once the get to orbiting me I couldn't hit them and my T2 Med Drones didn't have the DPS to break there tank. I often had to warp out and switch to Auto's, in missions like the blockade that led to problems with 6 perma TD's on me. It is why I switched from a Maelstrom to a Navy Scorp that got good DPS with Rigored / Painted cruise Missiles and Furies on Battleships. I found it did a better job on pretty much all non angel missions then the Maelstrom and wasn't to slow for those ether.

Without the falloff bonus I am not really a fan of Large Auto's and Artillery doesn't track well enough on elite cruisers for my taste.
Babar Baboli
Walrus Mafia
The Initiative.
#8 - 2012-03-28 14:47:38 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
The major problem I found with an Arty Maelstrom is Elite Cruiser NPC's (The 300k ISK ones). Once the get to orbiting me I couldn't hit them and my T2 Med Drones didn't have the DPS to break there tank. I often had to warp out and switch to Auto's, in missions like the blockade that led to problems with 6 perma TD's on me. It is why I switched from a Maelstrom to a Navy Scorp that got good DPS with Rigored / Painted cruise Missiles and Furies on Battleships. I found it did a better job on pretty much all non angel missions then the Maelstrom and wasn't to slow for those ether.

Without the falloff bonus I am not really a fan of Large Auto's and Artillery doesn't track well enough on elite cruisers for my taste.


Were those 1200mm artys or 1400mm? Or do both kinds have such bad tracking that they can't hit the elite cruisers?
Alara IonStorm
#9 - 2012-03-28 15:01:56 UTC
Babar Baboli wrote:

Were those 1200mm artys or 1400mm? Or do both kinds have such bad tracking that they can't hit the elite cruisers?

They were 1400mm Meta 4 Cannons using 3 TE's and 2 Gyro's. I think 2 TE's and one TC with Tracking Script running T2 Tracking Ammo might work but I am not sure because I made the switch before I got T2 Arty.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-03-28 18:04:46 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Babar Baboli wrote:

Were those 1200mm artys or 1400mm? Or do both kinds have such bad tracking that they can't hit the elite cruisers?

They were 1400mm Meta 4 Cannons using 3 TE's and 2 Gyro's. I think 2 TE's and one TC with Tracking Script running T2 Tracking Ammo might work but I am not sure because I made the switch before I got T2 Arty.


I find the TC II is a must when using artillery for PvE.

As to ammo, I find Phased Plasma works against everything really. Depleted Uranium is also ok-ish if you need more tracking.

All I usually load for missions is Phased Plasma and Fusion for Angel missions. Never had the need to use anything else.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-03-28 20:04:15 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
The major problem I found with an Arty Maelstrom is Elite Cruiser NPC's (The 300k ISK ones). Once the get to orbiting me I couldn't hit them and my T2 Med Drones didn't have the DPS to break there tank. I often had to warp out and switch to Auto's, in missions like the blockade that led to problems with 6 perma TD's on me. It is why I switched from a Maelstrom to a Navy Scorp that got good DPS with Rigored / Painted cruise Missiles and Furies on Battleships. I found it did a better job on pretty much all non angel missions then the Maelstrom and wasn't to slow for those ether.

Without the falloff bonus I am not really a fan of Large Auto's and Artillery doesn't track well enough on elite cruisers for my taste.

Kite rats that are smaller than you (frigs, cruisers, bc).

Kite or orbit rats that are same size as you (bs). Some rat bs try to close in, if you kite them, they do next to no damage to you. Some rat bs (amarr and caldari i think) stay far out, those you orbit (speed tank to reduce the damage, particularly from missiles).

Navy scorp is probably still faster overall, but at least you will be able to kill those elite cruisers with your guns now.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Skorpynekomimi
#12 - 2012-03-28 20:58:17 UTC
What I've heard is to use 1200s and not 1400s, due to the 1400s having a longer cycle time and worse tracking.

For PvE, you don't need omgalpha. Rats don't use logistics or uber buffer tanks. They do, however, move bloody fast and LOVE to orbit where you can't hit them.

My advice is to get an arty fit AND an AC fit, with identical rigs so you don't need a whole other mael. Swap fits out as desired.
I see it as much like keeping armour and hull reps around in case you **** up.

Economic PVP

Babar Baboli
Walrus Mafia
The Initiative.
#13 - 2012-03-29 06:38:19 UTC
Thanks to all of you!
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#14 - 2012-03-29 07:31:41 UTC
Babar Baboli wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:
I am guessing this is for PvE? Correct me if I am wrong.

Tracking Enhancers are always useful on any turret ship. They increase optimal and falloff which, as you are flying a Minmatar ship, is very, very useful.

The quicker you can kill things when they are far away, the less you need to micro manage your tank.

I would never fit more than 3 Gyros as there's a stacking penalty that makes the 4th Gyro really not worth fitting.


Yes, it's for PvE.
Didn't think of the stacking penalty :(

But, do I really need that high optimal?
i.e. I find it very rare that targets are further away than 40km and it makes it even easier to get "under my guns" for cruisers and frigs.


The previous poster quoting you also explains this but let me add a twist. As Tenga says more optimal does not decrease your ability to track small targets. Its increases it and more than you would think.

The tracking of an L sized long range weapon (let's take 1400s) means that as npc rats come towards you even as stupidly as they fly (initially autopiloting to the close transversal instead of using progressively closing transversals - this would nerf turret ships for pve a fair bit) they "can not be hit -well-" by you when they are closer than let's say 30kms. This means that if your optimal is 25kms you have no range at which you can do full damage to them. You can do good damage from 30km to your fal off range...

Now to take this a step further if you use modules that manage to raise your optimal past 30km you get a "sweet spot" where you do full damage to incoming npc rats... So an optimal of say 60kms gives you a lot of missions where you can one volley npc rats doing full damage (and if you have not grouped your weapons or have grouped them in more than one groups you can kill multiple frigates with every volley).

So tl;dr if you do not have "better things" to fit there then a couple of TEIIs are a valuable addition to your vessel for PvE...