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Are Marauders worth the time?
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Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#41 - 2012-03-28 07:16:39 UTC
What is needed is a retooling of marauders as the game has changed since their introduction. I feel honestly the tractor bonus is silly as it still takes forever to salvage with a single salvager perhaps just scrap that and the armor rep bonus and add a resistance bonus per level? And to make up for the loss of the tractor bonus perhaps a boost to its drone bandwidth and bay size? Opinions?
Sunviking
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-03-28 08:42:41 UTC
Dyniss wrote:
What is needed is a retooling of marauders as the game has changed since their introduction. I feel honestly the tractor bonus is silly as it still takes forever to salvage with a single salvager perhaps just scrap that and the armor rep bonus and add a resistance bonus per level? And to make up for the loss of the tractor bonus perhaps a boost to its drone bandwidth and bay size? Opinions?


I have to say I disagree somewhat with what you say. Marauders are still relevant to the game, they just need a boost of somekind. Marauders are meant for semi-solo PvE whereas Noctis are meant to clean up after fleet engagements, PvE or PvP.

The changes you suggest seem to imply you want to use them for PvP which is not their intended role in the game.

Some small boosting around damage and/or damage application would be good enough, or perhaps even an additional bonus once you get to Marauders 5, to actually encourage players to train the skill to that level.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-03-28 09:34:37 UTC
Dyniss wrote:
I'd like to see a 425mm rail Kronos alpha strike cruisers and 2 shot bs's like a Maelstrom can and lets not even go into how awesome a Mach is for missions.


I already one shot cruisers/BC's and 3 to 4 shots with a navy mega (5sec Rof) so, put aside the sensor issue with marauders and Khronos should do a little better.
If you can't one shot cruisers and BC's with a Khronos you're doing it wrong.
Goran Konjich
Krompany
#44 - 2012-03-28 13:22:06 UTC
Sunviking wrote:
... which is not their intended role in the game.
... to actually encourage players to train the skill to that level.


Yeah! Bear

I'm a diplomat. Sometimes i throw 425mm wide briefcases at enemy. Such is EVE.
Nemo deBlanc
Resource Acquisition Unlimited
#45 - 2012-03-28 19:11:54 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Nemo deBlanc wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
There's times and places where Marauders are simply the best choice. For instance, running 2 Marauders in a WH is far superior to running a faction BS and a Noctis.

-Liang

Ed: And 1x Marauder >> 1 faction BS/T3 and coming back in a Noctis.


Don't you run into issues with stuff blowing up outside tractor range in wh's? Or is there something I'm missing here?


I encourage you to try it! :)

-Liang


heheh, we all love Marauder ganks. Blink The wh marauder fits I've built don't have room for salvagers/tractors anyways sadly.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#46 - 2012-03-28 19:56:30 UTC
I don't have an alt in your WH - I'm just encouraging you to actually try it instead of relying on hear-say and EFT.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#47 - 2012-03-28 22:53:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Azemar
Dyniss wrote:
What is needed is a retooling of marauders as the game has changed since their introduction. I feel honestly the tractor bonus is silly as it still takes forever to salvage with a single salvager perhaps just scrap that and the armor rep bonus and add a resistance bonus per level? And to make up for the loss of the tractor bonus perhaps a boost to its drone bandwidth and bay size? Opinions?



I agree with you. In my honest opinion, i think it's pretty dumb that a ship that takes a month and a half more to use (if you're going to V) is only better in certain situations than one that requires much less time to use for about the same price.

If it were up to me i'd do one of these two things:

Increase drone bay by 25 m3 (5 Garde's and 5 Hobgoblin's would be insane.)
Reduce the training multiplier to 7-8x

Thoughts?
Joyelle
SludgeSlingers
#48 - 2012-03-28 23:29:39 UTC
I'll say it again " marauders are crap ". Their tank is about a notch over that of their t1 counterparts while other t2 variants usually have tanks that are five notches above t1 variants.The only thing going for them are the additional bonuses but it doesn't warrant training for the damn thing. Nowadays, the only reason one gets into one is because you had nothing else to train for or you just aren't informed.
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#49 - 2012-03-29 00:01:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Azemar
Joyelle wrote:
I'll say it again " marauders are crap ". Their tank is about a notch over that of their t1 counterparts while other t2 variants usually have tanks that are five notches above t1 variants.The only thing going for them are the additional bonuses but it doesn't warrant training for the damn thing. Nowadays, the only reason one gets into one is because you had nothing else to train for or you just aren't informed.



So what would you recommend in terms of buffs to give them that "ultimate subcapital solo PvE ship" title? That is what marauders were supposed to be right? I do believe they require the most time devotion subcap
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#50 - 2012-03-29 00:45:51 UTC
Joyelle wrote:
I'll say it again " marauders are crap ". Their tank is about a notch over that of their t1 counterparts while other t2 variants usually have tanks that are five notches above t1 variants.The only thing going for them are the additional bonuses but it doesn't warrant training for the damn thing. Nowadays, the only reason one gets into one is because you had nothing else to train for or you just aren't informed.


http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/jackie-chan-01.jpg%20

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#51 - 2012-03-29 00:46:26 UTC
Azemar wrote:
Joyelle wrote:
I'll say it again " marauders are crap ". Their tank is about a notch over that of their t1 counterparts while other t2 variants usually have tanks that are five notches above t1 variants.The only thing going for them are the additional bonuses but it doesn't warrant training for the damn thing. Nowadays, the only reason one gets into one is because you had nothing else to train for or you just aren't informed.



So what would you recommend in terms of buffs to give them that "ultimate subcapital solo PvE ship" title? That is what marauders were supposed to be right? I do believe they require the most time devotion subcap


I'd like to introduce you to the Black Ops Battleship.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Argaral
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-03-29 00:53:16 UTC
@ liang, do go on. I can almost fly one of these and would love to hear their pve potential
Joyelle
SludgeSlingers
#53 - 2012-03-29 01:07:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Joyelle
Liang Nuren wrote:
Joyelle wrote:
I'll say it again " marauders are crap ". Their tank is about a notch over that of their t1 counterparts while other t2 variants usually have tanks that are five notches above t1 variants.The only thing going for them are the additional bonuses but it doesn't warrant training for the damn thing. Nowadays, the only reason one gets into one is because you had nothing else to train for or you just aren't informed.


http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/jackie-chan-01.jpg%20

I had a good chuckle. Admit it already, the mach > vag and nightmare > paladin. Nuff said...

P.S. Blackops are also crap in PVE.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#54 - 2012-03-29 01:57:40 UTC
Argaral wrote:
@ liang, do go on. I can almost fly one of these and would love to hear their pve potential


BOBs are fun because its much easier to mission in places you really shouldn't. Consider a situation where you're running missions in Stain for the Sansha and you get the inevitable storyline mission. Except the story line mission is one jump the other side of a usually camped system. The system does not have a station.

Your options at this point are:
- Decline the mission
- Take your Marauder through a gate camp
- Difficult-to-probe cloaky T3
- Covert cyno your BOBS over.

The fun thing about covert cynoing your BOBS over is that you can covert cyno out... potentially at the drop of a hat. You tend to sacrifice some DPS for this ability, but its not that bad all things considered. You can still generally get more than most cloaky T3s, for example.

At any rate, the point of the comment wasn't to say that the Black Ops BS is a great PVE ship... but to point out that it (not the Marauder) is the most skill intensive subcapital.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#55 - 2012-03-29 02:04:43 UTC
Joyelle wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Joyelle wrote:
I'll say it again " marauders are crap ". Their tank is about a notch over that of their t1 counterparts while other t2 variants usually have tanks that are five notches above t1 variants.The only thing going for them are the additional bonuses but it doesn't warrant training for the damn thing. Nowadays, the only reason one gets into one is because you had nothing else to train for or you just aren't informed.


http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/jackie-chan-01.jpg%20

I had a good chuckle. Admit it already, the mach > vag and nightmare > paladin. Nuff said...

P.S. Blackops are also crap in PVE.


Tell me again how awesome the Mach is when you have to loot and/or salvage the field for your ISK? Such as when running drones, pirate L4s, L5s, or WHs. Just because you're a high sec carebear doesn't mean that Marauders have no place in PVE.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Skorpynekomimi
#56 - 2012-03-29 13:58:07 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Joyelle wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Joyelle wrote:
I'll say it again " marauders are crap ". Their tank is about a notch over that of their t1 counterparts while other t2 variants usually have tanks that are five notches above t1 variants.The only thing going for them are the additional bonuses but it doesn't warrant training for the damn thing. Nowadays, the only reason one gets into one is because you had nothing else to train for or you just aren't informed.


http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/jackie-chan-01.jpg%20

I had a good chuckle. Admit it already, the mach > vag and nightmare > paladin. Nuff said...

P.S. Blackops are also crap in PVE.


Tell me again how awesome the Mach is when you have to loot and/or salvage the field for your ISK? Such as when running drones, pirate L4s, L5s, or WHs. Just because you're a high sec carebear doesn't mean that Marauders have no place in PVE.

-Liang


That's what a Noctis is for, surely?

Economic PVP
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#57 - 2012-03-29 14:15:47 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Argaral wrote:
@ liang, do go on. I can almost fly one of these and would love to hear their pve potential


BOBs are fun because its much easier to mission in places you really shouldn't. Consider a situation where you're running missions in Stain for the Sansha and you get the inevitable storyline mission. Except the story line mission is one jump the other side of a usually camped system. The system does not have a station.

Your options at this point are:
- Decline the mission
- Take your Marauder through a gate camp
- Difficult-to-probe cloaky T3
- Covert cyno your BOBS over.

The fun thing about covert cynoing your BOBS over is that you can covert cyno out... potentially at the drop of a hat. You tend to sacrifice some DPS for this ability, but its not that bad all things considered. You can still generally get more than most cloaky T3s, for example.

At any rate, the point of the comment wasn't to say that the Black Ops BS is a great PVE ship... but to point out that it (not the Marauder) is the most skill intensive subcapital.

-Liang


I am gratefull for the last two lines... I was examining my (virtual) glasses up until then...
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#58 - 2012-03-29 14:16:38 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Joyelle wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Joyelle wrote:
I'll say it again " marauders are crap ". Their tank is about a notch over that of their t1 counterparts while other t2 variants usually have tanks that are five notches above t1 variants.The only thing going for them are the additional bonuses but it doesn't warrant training for the damn thing. Nowadays, the only reason one gets into one is because you had nothing else to train for or you just aren't informed.


http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/jackie-chan-01.jpg%20

I had a good chuckle. Admit it already, the mach > vag and nightmare > paladin. Nuff said...

P.S. Blackops are also crap in PVE.


Tell me again how awesome the Mach is when you have to loot and/or salvage the field for your ISK? Such as when running drones, pirate L4s, L5s, or WHs. Just because you're a high sec carebear doesn't mean that Marauders have no place in PVE.

-Liang


That's what a Noctis is for, surely?


You ll be amazed to hear it perhaps but in many situations Noctis's are for those who can not fly Marauders...
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#59 - 2012-03-29 16:03:04 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Joyelle wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Joyelle wrote:
I'll say it again " marauders are crap ". Their tank is about a notch over that of their t1 counterparts while other t2 variants usually have tanks that are five notches above t1 variants.The only thing going for them are the additional bonuses but it doesn't warrant training for the damn thing. Nowadays, the only reason one gets into one is because you had nothing else to train for or you just aren't informed.


http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/jackie-chan-01.jpg%20

I had a good chuckle. Admit it already, the mach > vag and nightmare > paladin. Nuff said...

P.S. Blackops are also crap in PVE.


Tell me again how awesome the Mach is when you have to loot and/or salvage the field for your ISK? Such as when running drones, pirate L4s, L5s, or WHs. Just because you're a high sec carebear doesn't mean that Marauders have no place in PVE.

-Liang


That's what a Noctis is for, surely?


Running a Noctis in that situation tends to significantly cut into your ISK/hr.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#60 - 2012-03-30 00:36:29 UTC
Haha let's get back on topic here:

Is the marauder worth the time invest (to V). If not, could it use a buff? If so, how?