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Kai Tel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-03-28 00:57:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kai Tel
Well SOE keeps a Twitter account HERE

They are not that hard to find and are open to fans posting what they will so if you want to see what SOE and their anti-bully stance says on this mess, go find out.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#62 - 2012-03-28 00:58:54 UTC
Vorlain wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
You may want to note: none are in jail. ...I am defending him.


Well first of you are wrong plan and simple plenty of people have been jailed for inciting hate crimes, including inciting others to cause harm. Plenty of Political figures have also lost their jobs and faced criminal proceeding over similar gaffes.


A few comments:
- It is not a hate crime. Suggesting it as such is ******* absurd.
- He did not incite others to cause harm. At worst he incited people to grief someone in game.
- You equate in game politics to out of game politics. They are not the same.

Quote:

The loud and manic manner is which he proclaimed "Find HIM" is a clear direction to cause harm. Lets be clear no one has taken office as the presentation itself mocking this person, the offense is of the declaration to cause this person harm. Which is quite illegal in many many countries including the US and Iceland.


Actually, no. See - "THE WIS" doesn't exist outside of Eve Online. There wasn't a law broken except perhaps public drunkenness. Also, cyber bullying laws are almost universally geared towards school aged children. On the off chance I'm wrong, please cite several of these laws that you believe have been broken. Please also cite politicians and other people who have been convicted and provide parallels to the case with The Mittani.

And please remember that in game is in game and out of game is out of game.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#63 - 2012-03-28 01:00:35 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:

And liang yes i do think he didnt care that he would cause possible IRL harm to someone. Thats why he needs to step down from the CSM now.


He absolutely did step over a line. That's why he needed to issue an apology - which he did. People like you are willing to burn Eve to the ground in an effort to destroy someone whose real name you actually know.

If anyone is guilty of harassment.... its you.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Bibosikus
Air
#64 - 2012-03-28 01:00:35 UTC
The F Word wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
The F Word wrote:
You're getting hung up on the semantics when the spirit of it was pretty clear - the entire panel was about the delicious tears they were enjoying at the expense of others - schadenfreude.


You're very right, the spirit was clear. Clear to the goons listening, who promptly did nothing. Clear to the players listening, who promptly did nothing. That's why he didn't get harassed over this, and why this was a complete non-issue until a few days later when someone smelled a metagaming opportunity.


Except this wasn't an inside joke, the venue was wrong.

I can sympathize with a young man being in Iceland (far away from home), getting drunk (no driving needed - balls out), and then proceeding to have verbal diarrhea. It happens all the time. Except this time is was during a live event, in front of a crowd, watched by thousands. This time he was speaking as the chairman of the CSM, among other things.

If you build up a reputation as a self-proclaimed douche, you should probably be a little more candid about how you conduct yourself in front of others - particularly those with an agenda. He set himself up for failure - and saw it through.

Has too much been made of it? Of course... that's obvious. But it's a slow motion train wreck at this point, and there's no stopping the carnage regardless of whether it's warranted or not.

And that is what makes this whole thing so interesting.


QFT.

Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvo08_uYjHI from about 1:01:30 and tell me that the Chairman of the CSM and CEO of the largest Alliance in Eve didn't harm the game's reputation on a live world wide web feed.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#65 - 2012-03-28 01:01:31 UTC
Bibosikus wrote:
[
QFT.

Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvo08_uYjHI from about 1:01:30 and tell me that the Chairman of the CSM and CEO of the largest Alliance in Eve didn't harm the game's reputation on a live world wide web feed.


He didn't harm the game's reputation on a live world wide web feed.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#66 - 2012-03-28 01:05:09 UTC
Vorlain wrote:
The loud and manic manner is which he proclaimed "Find HIM" is a clear direction to cause harm.


Have a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E7Ki91U-mBE#t=4315s

If by "loud and manic" you mean "jovially and ..."

Wait. What was your point?

Just watch the ******* clip and tell me that is anything other than a drunken, flippant comment.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

The F Word
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-03-28 01:06:32 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Bibosikus wrote:
[
QFT.

Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvo08_uYjHI from about 1:01:30 and tell me that the Chairman of the CSM and CEO of the largest Alliance in Eve didn't harm the game's reputation on a live world wide web feed.


He didn't harm the game's reputation on a live world wide web feed.

-Liang


He did it a favor?

He merely confirmed what every non-player already suspected?

He got himself written about on a dozen or so gaming websites, forever linking his real name to a cyber-bully(rightfully or not) incident while wearing a wizard hat?
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2012-03-28 01:06:49 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:

And liang yes i do think he didnt care that he would cause possible IRL harm to someone. Thats why he needs to step down from the CSM now.


He absolutely did step over a line. That's why he needed to issue an apology - which he did. People like you are willing to burn Eve to the ground in an effort to destroy someone whose real name you actually know.

If anyone is guilty of harassment.... its you.

-Liang



How so. lay it on me.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Vorlain
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-03-28 01:07:28 UTC
Well lets start with it happened out of game, so it's an out of game issue. Let's then look at the Q&A comments by mittani in which he stated;

“Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is XXXXX”

followed up with;

"Find Him"

He didn't say oh incidentally if you want to grief him.. he said if you want him to kill himself.. that's out of game, can't do it in game now can you and finally the direction to find him clearly endorses that outcome.

I have not ever mentioned cyber bulling, this didn't happen online it happened in person at Fanfest on Camera. No different to the leader of the *** getting up and saying go find a ****** to hang.

Again go back and read Mittani's own position on it, cause I think it speaks volumes... at least he knows right from wrong.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#70 - 2012-03-28 01:09:14 UTC
The F Word wrote:

He did it a favor?

He merely confirmed what every non-player already suspected?

He got himself written about on a dozen or so gaming websites, forever linking his real name to a cyber-bully(rightfully or not) incident while wearing a wizard hat?


Let me introduce you to a video game I play: Eve "Controversy" Online. See, Controversy is Eve's middle name because she's mixed up in it so often. In every one of those controversies there have been people like you claiming that the controversy has hurt the game... but Every... Single... Time... those controversies have in fact grown the community closer and provided more people.

The only controversy that I'm really willing to concede really hurt the game was T20 - where the devs literally and directly violated the "sanctity" of the sandbox by having devs literally cheat at their own game.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2012-03-28 01:09:17 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Vorlain wrote:
The loud and manic manner is which he proclaimed "Find HIM" is a clear direction to cause harm.


Have a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E7Ki91U-mBE#t=4315s

If by "loud and manic" you mean "jovially and ..."

Wait. What was your point?

Just watch the ******* clip and tell me that is anything other than a drunken, flippant comment.



Yeah Im sure the goons took it the same way you did.

Not to mention other pets and sycophants that would do it just to say "LOL i did what you said Mittens."


We are talking about a known quality of person that is the GOON player and friends. Known behavior and actions as well.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#72 - 2012-03-28 01:12:22 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Vorlain wrote:
The loud and manic manner is which he proclaimed "Find HIM" is a clear direction to cause harm.


Have a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E7Ki91U-mBE#t=4315s

If by "loud and manic" you mean "jovially and ..."

Wait. What was your point?

Just watch the ******* clip and tell me that is anything other than a drunken, flippant comment.



Yeah Im sure the goons took it the same way you did.

Not to mention other pets and sycophants that would do it just to say "LOL i did what you said Mittens."


We are talking about a known quality of person that is the GOON player and friends. Known behavior and actions as well.


You're a class act mate, you really are.

You are blatantly ignoring video evidence that every single ******* **** post you've thrown out in the past two days is a lie.

You will now start posting the same **** in another thread, hoping people listen to you and don't actually watch the video.

You cannot watch that video with a sound mind and think the person there is literally calling out to people who support him to cause the death of the guy.

If you do, you need a serious long hard reality check my friend.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Savion Chastis
Golden Sail Enterprises
Rote Works
#73 - 2012-03-28 01:13:41 UTC
At this point I'm not sure who is worse. The goons or the people gunning for their CEO.

Dude said some incredibly stupid **** that may have a serious impact. Regardless of what the outcome is, it's time to sit back and let CCP , and the parties actually involved handle it. TBH I feel sorry for the man behind Mitanni as well. This is not how I would want to learn my lessons. What was needed to be said by the community has been said. Both sides are actually hurting their case more the more they talk in circles. Gives you more time to say something stupid as well.

I've seen just as many d*bag comments from the people against this as I have from the goons and their supporters....


If CCP wanted your opinon , they'd ask for it. HTFU and let them do their job Roll
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#74 - 2012-03-28 01:13:57 UTC
Actually, no one has contacted The Wis to grief him. The guy didn't even know about it until a couple of days ago when someone asked him how he felt about it. The Wis basically said he didn't give a **** what was said.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#75 - 2012-03-28 01:14:28 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
[quote=Vorlain]The loud and manic manner is which he proclaimed "Find HIM" is a clear direction to cause harm.

"LOL i did what you said Mittens."

They are physically unable to "do what he said" because what he said did not instruct an action.

It was a statement giving information to people which could be used to harass the guy in-game. He didn't EVEN say go harass him in game.

Remember (sorry, facts again!)

"If YOU WANT to make him .."

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

The F Word
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-03-28 01:14:45 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The F Word wrote:

He did it a favor?

He merely confirmed what every non-player already suspected?

He got himself written about on a dozen or so gaming websites, forever linking his real name to a cyber-bully(rightfully or not) incident while wearing a wizard hat?


Let me introduce you to a video game I play: Eve "Controversy" Online. See, Controversy is Eve's middle name because she's mixed up in it so often. In every one of those controversies there have been people like you claiming that the controversy has hurt the game... but Every... Single... Time... those controversies have in fact grown the community closer and provided more people.

The only controversy that I'm really willing to concede really hurt the game was T20 - where the devs literally and directly violated the "sanctity" of the sandbox by having devs literally cheat at their own game.

-Liang


Yes yes.. and the boot.ini issue didn't help.

Frankly noone I know is intrigued by the meta-gaming that occurs in Eve, they aren't hard core enough I suppose - too mainstream. Most are put off by it, and that's ok.

For the most part, any press is good press - and this will work out for CCP, they've demonstrated their ability to pivot pretty quickly should the need arise.

I was more pointing out the fact that this 'wizard' managed to put himself in a position of being made a spectacle on the tubes. That's about as bright as the 'victim' having his personal details in his bio....

T20 is a non-issue at this point - this is fresh controversy, there's blood in the water and the sharks are hungry. By virtue of who has been courted, so it goes.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#77 - 2012-03-28 01:15:08 UTC
Vorlain wrote:
Well lets start with it happened out of game, so it's an out of game issue. Let's then look at the Q&A comments by mittani in which he stated;

“Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is XXXXX”

followed up with;

"Find Him"

He didn't say oh incidentally if you want to grief him.. he said if you want him to kill himself.. that's out of game, can't do it in game now can you and finally the direction to find him clearly endorses that outcome.

I have not ever mentioned cyber bulling, this didn't happen online it happened in person at Fanfest on Camera. No different to the leader of the *** getting up and saying go find a ****** to hang.

Again go back and read Mittani's own position on it, cause I think it speaks volumes... at least he knows right from wrong.


No one is saying he didn't **** up - least of all me. What I'm saying is that the apology was sufficient to the **** up. At worst he incited people to grief someone in game. As far as I'm aware, nobody in game knows The Wis's real name and nobody has harassed him as a result of this except for his white knights.

Basically what we're saying is that the sudden spike of Preachers, Popes, and Internet Lawyers we're seeing on Eve-O are simply people hopping on a bandwagon constructed to defame a person who has given his real life name. The people in this band wagon have gone so far as to deliver literal threats of personal violence and discuss the various ways in which The Mittani should be physically murdered. Yet nobody is really calling them out on that because its all fine. Right?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Altimo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-03-28 01:26:10 UTC
This wasn't cyber harassment or whatever, This only became cyber harassment when some moron decided to post this to every news site imaginable, where we just see copies of what was posted from another site.


The real harassment begins there, This kind of thing didn't need to be posted all over the web, and the real harassment is now being directed at Alex, the real player behind Mittani.

All of this issue the evemail was an ingame issue, it could have been resolved in game, and didn't need to resort to this, The lot of you that think this is okay, the publicity or whatever, Keep it up. The community is very well capable of destroying EVE just as much as CCP is themselves.
Funkert
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#79 - 2012-03-28 01:30:01 UTC
Bibosikus wrote:
QFT.

Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvo08_uYjHI from about 1:01:30 and tell me that the Chairman of the CSM and CEO of the largest Alliance in Eve didn't harm the game's reputation on a live world wide web feed.


He did not hurt the game's reputation in the slightest. There was only a handful of eve-loving neckbeards watching that stream. I'm pretty sure most of them weren't the least bit shocked at the time.

Its the few bitter persons rallying a thousand sperglords and writing their teary eyed letters to the press that will be the ones that hurt the game in the end*

Also, if you really want to force CCP's hand, do the only thing that has worked so far. Unsub. I dare you. Not nearly enough of you have the heart to do it to even make CCP raise an eyebrow. Because in the end you don't give a **** about that miner, you just want to see the world burn.(ingame)


*if, as one of the above posters noted, any harm comes from it at all
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#80 - 2012-03-28 01:34:51 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:

And liang yes i do think he didnt care that he would cause possible IRL harm to someone. Thats why he needs to step down from the CSM now.


He absolutely did step over a line. That's why he needed to issue an apology - which he did. People like you are willing to burn Eve to the ground in an effort to destroy someone whose real name you actually know.

If anyone is guilty of harassment.... its you.

-Liang


Let's elaborate on that.
* We all know that at Fanfest people get drunk, and CCP themselves have had the famous drink-with-devs sessions and the beer ship presenting Oveur in 2009, just some examples.
* We also all know that goons 'mission statement' is to ruin whichever games they join, EVE is just one of many.
* We also know some of the higher up devs are goons.

Add those together, and you could in fact claim that Mittens really just 'was the person he is' and 'doing what was expected of him'. In light of that, maybe the blame should be put at CCP for allowing goons to infest this game for so long? Mittens is just a victim of circumstances!

PPPP

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.