Ships & Modules

you know about stacking penalty of tps right?

one goon more that farts about game mechanics he dont even understand :D

really you are mwding with battleships (blown up to carrier signatur radius) away from titans and wonder why they hit you, your so terribad at eve

50 tracking titans are not vulnerable to anything they'd be fielded against.

No subcap fleet could take out any of them (except for situations where their pilots make mistakes, such as last weekend) and they are not brought onto the field when there is a threat from an equal sized tank-fitted titan fleet.

Even if they were dropped by a titan fleet of equal size, there is nothing stopping them from simply refitting.

This is the point I was getting at.

Essentially, the current state of 0.0 sub capital combat, given the role of logistics ships, works a fair bit around the concept of killing a ship in a single volley before reps are received. I won't go into detail about our fleet doctrine, but it uses a lot of support and ships with the ability to coordinate a high alpha strike on a single target which they are able to track to do this quite well. It's far from immune to counters, capital and sub capital, but the issue at hand is how a super capital fleet functions versus sub capital fleets, so I'll use this as the example.

Pre-Crucible, Titans were able to use their Doomsdays to directly and immediately remove critical support roles from this fleet, or any other fleet. In order, these were generally the fleet commander, any command ships, and hictors/dictors capable of tackling Titans, and any logistics ships capable of keeping the fleet alive. They did this in a single shot, so no amount of support could prevent it. They required no support to do this.

Post-Crucible, Titans are doing the exact same run down of critical targets, only they're using the fact their guns are perfectly capable of hitting any sized target given its angular velocity relative to a crowd of 20+ titans requires no support to hit with a shot that will kill it in a single volley. Titans were doing this pre-Crucible in low sec where they couldn't use doomsdays (see the end of the much celebrated first CCP fleet, a fun event for everyone). Given their immunity to friendly electronic warfare, this isn't due to support fleets. Looking at killmails, these targets are not target painted or webbed. They are simply being killed in single volleys. There is still no support fleet necessary.

The reason Leviathans are mentioned is because missile damage is not effective in this type of strategy, as the flight time of missiles means coordinating a volley does not work. Furthermore, the single volley damage from singular Leviathans is not killing sub capitals because it is actually mitigated by the missile damage formula.

As it stands, even assuming maximum target painting and webbing (which implies the necessity of a support fleet for Titans to function), Leviathans were never useful for this type of combat.

tl;dr:

-Single volley kills by turrets is what is dangerous
-Titans do this without support while having 30m+ EHP
-Missiles don't do this without support, or even with it.

they kill hurricanes with mwd off really easy, because in this game there is always going to be an chance to apply all 10k dps

cost is never an excuse

No they're not, because a supercap fleet always has alternate fittings in the cargo and a bunch of supercarriers nearby.

Again, the problem isn't single titans. A single titan is vulnerable and an insignificant threat to a subcap fleet. The issue is large groups of titans supported by supercarriers, a doctrine which scales far beyond their numbers.

If a serious threat to the fleet appears, the titans will simply use the carriers to refit into a max tank fit. When there is no threat, they can fit for maximum damage, tracking and scan res.

Also, CCP Greyscale, since you've not replied I've taken this chance to produce 2 more graphs for you.

These are without MWD on, as all the others have had the MWD on for the target Maelstrom.

With webs: http://i.imgur.com/Meg3i.png

Without: http://i.imgur.com/2ez3h.png

Important to keep in mind that costs rise exponentially as you increase between hull sizes and the power curve does not.

"Please don't nerf my titan it's the only thing I have in life that makes me feel special"

Horrible in this case means "unable to blap subcapitals".

I apologize, but Titans shouldn't be able to do that, ever.

Dear CCP Greyscale:

Stop doing micro-management. Stop trying to small easy changes trying to fix Titans.
Titans are like this way for years, and some more months will not kill eve.

Instead, do the right thing. Leave Titans the way they are by now and do a big change. As many before me already said, make Titans a big logistic / support / reship / (insert here your fleet support idea) ship.
Titans should be that way long time ago, and now with your new project to design ship status by role, it is the right time to do it.

Do you not have the man-hours to do it right now? It is ok, just do it at the winter expansion and warning the player base about the new change. Of course that you will have an OMG ragequit reaction at fist, but be a man and do it for the nest of the eve universe. Be a brave man! Do it!

After all, that is the way CCP act when you really want it, like as weeks ago when you decide to delete a lot of collection items and are just ignoring the plead of the players (sarcasm and disappointment included at this paragraph).