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I got drunk and accidently my powerpoint...

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Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#21 - 2012-03-27 06:29:21 UTC
Lets face it.

We've seen you guys defend each other on the forums week after week, troll troll troll.

There's little merit in any of your arguments. He did this to himself. It's not defensible, nor is it "good", "reasonable" or even - and this is the crux of it - acceptable.

He should be gone.

Nuff said.

.
Tassarion
The Eden Trading International Corporation
#22 - 2012-03-27 06:29:29 UTC
because the apology is a troll? Bear
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-03-27 06:29:38 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
I can link at least 15 other people who have directly told others to kill themselves.

Moral equivalence is a really weak argument. You're better off omitting this line of thinking altogether from your defense of the Mittani. Just sayin.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2012-03-27 06:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
Revolution Rising wrote:
He didn't say it in the USA for one. And guess what, the rest of us shouldn't have to put up with it even if he did.

And if he thought it was reasonable behaviour - then I just have one question ...

Why'd he apologise at all ?


WHERE he said it is entirely beside the point. Regardless of what part of the planet he was standing on, he should have the right to say whatever he wants.

Guess what, We shouldnt have to put up with a bunch of people dragging a suicidal guy's private business through the news simply to get someone else removed from our internet spaceship game. I'm offended. I'm offended that you've abused this player as cannon fodder for your selfish goals. YOU should be banned. YOU offended me.

Should you be banned because of your position? I think if we took a vote, the MAJORITY would agree mittani should remain. So that leaves you in the minority. Should the majority mob rule over you and your freedom of speech? This is why its important that people be allowed to say ANYTHING they want - Otherwise you end up oppressing people simply for not sharing the same views as you.

People have the right to say ignorant bullshit. Because if they don't, then we have no rights at all.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-03-27 06:32:26 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Because its important that people be allowed to say -anything- they want. Its also important for people to be mature enough to ignore the bullshit they might hear. You cant punish people for saying things that are against the public/common 'morality'.

If you were living in **** Germany for example, should you not be allowed to speak out against ******? As a fundamental rule, people should be allowed to say absolutely anything they want. Morality is purely subjective. It is wrong to punish someone for his beliefs or words, no matter what they are.

If you disagree with what he's saying, you're free to say that. But you should not be allowed to punish him for it. If we started punishing every idiot, we'd only have about 5% of the population free

Unfortunately, we have all agreed to abide by the EULA, which means we have VOLUNTARILY accepted restrictions on our speech.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2012-03-27 06:36:50 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:

Unfortunately, we have all agreed to abide by the EULA, which means we have VOLUNTARILY accepted restrictions on our speech.

Unfortunatly thats also beside the point.

That EULA exists in the state it does simply because there are so many ******* whiner crybabies who were never told "Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me". Sadly, EULA's like that are also what enforces people's belief that they have the right to control what others say.

We live in a truly ignorant world.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#27 - 2012-03-27 06:37:40 UTC
Indeed, it is covered by the EULA.

I think the thing for him to do right now is step down - before CCP is forced to bring the EULA into it and just plain ban him.

That is what people are discussing in other threads if you take a look.

I personally wouldn't want to see him banned - but he obviously shouldn't be in the office.

Obvious not-chairman is obvious.

.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#28 - 2012-03-27 06:38:21 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:

Unfortunately, we have all agreed to abide by the EULA, which means we have VOLUNTARILY accepted restrictions on our speech.

Unfortunatly thats also beside the point.

That EULA exists in the state it does simply because there are so many ******* whiner crybabies who were never told "Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me". Sadly, EULA's like that are also what enforces people's belief that they have the right to control what others say.

We live in a truly ignorant world.


That we do ShockedRoll

.
Kara Roideater
#29 - 2012-03-27 06:40:14 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:

Neo-****'s in the USA are allowed to spew their hatered all day/night. Millions of Black and Jewish families have had family members who were murdered, beaten, or otherwise victemised by racist assholes.

Yet, we protect the right of them to say their garbage.

Why? Because its important that people be allowed to say -anything- they want. Its also important for people to be mature enough to ignore the bullshit they might hear. You cant punish people for saying things that are against the public/common 'morality'.

If you were living in **** Germany for example, should you not be allowed to speak out against ******? As a fundamental rule, people should be allowed to say absolutely anything they want. Morality is purely subjective. It is wrong to punish someone for his beliefs or words, no matter what they are.

If you disagree with what he's saying, you're free to say that. But you should not be allowed to punish him for it. If we started punishing every idiot, we'd only have about 5% of the population free


Your ability to elide the idea that people should legally have the freedom to say what they want with a second, very different, idea that no one should ever face any non-legal consequences for what they say is impressive. Perhaps you would like to combine two other completely different points into one just because they both have the word 'speech' in them?

By the way, you have fallen into the first trap of moral subjectivism - telling people that moral subjectivism is objectively right. If you look closely you may see a problem with a statement that has the following form:

Quote:

Morality is purely subjective. It is wrong to ... You should not be allowed to ...


Of course, if morality is subjective you have NO GROUNDS AT ALL for complaining about anything anyone else does.
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-03-27 06:41:33 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:

Unfortunately, we have all agreed to abide by the EULA, which means we have VOLUNTARILY accepted restrictions on our speech.

Unfortunatly thats also beside the point.

No, it is the entire point. If you don't like the restrictions on speech, stop playing. If you're going to play CCP's game, you accept the EULA and the speech restrictions.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2012-03-27 06:46:04 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:

Unfortunately, we have all agreed to abide by the EULA, which means we have VOLUNTARILY accepted restrictions on our speech.

Unfortunatly thats also beside the point.

No, it is the entire point. If you don't like the restrictions on speech, stop playing. If you're going to play CCP's game, you accept the EULA and the speech restrictions.


I'm well aware of the EULA and its restrictions. My point is that freedom to say dumb **** is a fundamental human right. Without it, we end up punishing -everyone-. Absolutely EVERYONE is guilty of offending someone.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Kara Roideater
#32 - 2012-03-27 06:53:26 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:

Unfortunately, we have all agreed to abide by the EULA, which means we have VOLUNTARILY accepted restrictions on our speech.

Unfortunatly thats also beside the point.

No, it is the entire point. If you don't like the restrictions on speech, stop playing. If you're going to play CCP's game, you accept the EULA and the speech restrictions.


I'm well aware of the EULA and its restrictions. My point is that freedom to say dumb **** is a fundamental human right. Without it, we end up punishing -everyone-. Absolutely EVERYONE is guilty of offending someone.


Wow! You are really good at inconsistency. Tell me more about how morality is subjective and how that fits in with your 'fundamental human rights'.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#33 - 2012-03-27 06:59:28 UTC
Kara, you ask the IMPOSSIBLE!

.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2012-03-27 07:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
Kara Roideater wrote:
Wow! You are really good at inconsistency. Tell me more about how morality is subjective and how that fits in with your 'fundamental human rights'.

Without the right to say any dumb thing that pops into your mind, every single one of us ends up guilty of offending someone.
This is why its critical people be allowed to say anything they want. If they're not allowed to, Nazi Germany happens. Consider China today, and its censorship. A man is beaten by his government simply for painting the wrong things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai_Weiwei#Shanghai_studio_controversy

This is what happens when you're not allowed to speak your mind.


Quote:
Ai posted on his Twitter account: "I didn’t care about jasmine at first, but people who are scared by jasmine sent out information about how harmful jasmine is often, which makes me realize that jasmine is what scares them the most. What a jasmine!"

On 3 April, Ai was arrested at Peking Airport just before catching a flight to Hong Kong

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#35 - 2012-03-27 07:07:44 UTC
From another thread:
"Terminal Insanity" wrote:
This just in.

Eveonline is a cyberbullying simulator. Its main features are literally the killing, thieving, and backstabbing.

WOW is back in the direction you came from.


Yes the great humanitarian. I can see how this terrible betrayal of human rights has effected you.

Furthermore I can see why you stand in defense of people who stay stupid ****.

.
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-03-27 07:08:48 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
My point is that freedom to say dumb **** is a fundamental human right.

There is no such thing as a fundamental human right. There is only what we negotiate with our fellow humans. In this case, CCP and the EULA.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2012-03-27 07:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
Revolution Rising wrote:
Yes the great humanitarian. I can see how this terrible betrayal of human rights has effected you.

Furthermore I can see why you stand in defense of people who stay stupid ****.

When your mother lands on your Boardwalk with a hotel, do you let her stay free? NO? Are you some kind of *******?

Eve is about killing, thieving and backstabbing. Thats part of the game. Just like charging insane fees to stay at your Boardwalk hotel is.


Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
There is no such thing as a fundamental human right. There is only what we negotiate with our fellow humans. In this case, CCP and the EULA.

Unfortunately you're correct. Which is why we end up with millions of people beaten, murdered, and otherwise harassed by their governments. All in the name of the 'public good'.

Just like the 'criminal' Ai Weiwei

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#38 - 2012-03-27 07:12:04 UTC
Tassarion wrote:
because the apology is a troll? Bear


Well as the powerpoint proves his presentation of this guy's vulnerable state was premeditated, if the apology isn't a troll - it's at least a very empty one.

.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2012-03-27 07:13:37 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
Well as the powerpoint proves his presentation of this guy's vulnerable state was premeditated, if the apology isn't a troll - it's at least a very empty one.


The powerpoint doesn't prove that he planned on saying what he did. It only proves that he intended to lol at someone's space tears, as is a common practice here in eveonline. If you cant handle people laughing at your space pixels blowing up, perhaps its time to find another game that is more suited to you.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-03-27 07:14:07 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
Days before I had a CCP Fanfest speech to give, I got drunk and accidently my powerpoint, then I got drunk on the day and presented the powerpoint, lots of laughs were had by all cept the dude I insulted.

I don't remember any of it.

I'm really sorry - which is why I premeditated it and did it.

I wrote a thing which I'm not going to cross-post in its entirety here

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=87117&find=unread

please stop the stupid so we can have an informed discussion^^
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