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So CCP - can you eliminate the CSM now?

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Author
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-03-26 21:47:07 UTC
Ghoest wrote:
Its been explained before that the mechanics of the election system make the CSM unrepresentative of the averge EVE player.

Its has also been explained that the structure of the CSM promotes biased input that not only favor particular types of gamers based on playstyle but even particular factions based on in game politics.

And now the CSM is just simply embarrassing.

Its really time to kill it.



No you are wrong.
Felix Grumbleduke
Totally Not Bitter
#42 - 2012-03-26 21:49:48 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
CSM is representative of those who vote.


Incorrect. CSM is representative of the largest power blocs of corporations/alliances which != "of those who vote". The voters from the largest power blocs have obvious self-interests to vote in support of those power blocs, not necessarily for the best interest of the game or the players.

Given the general maturity level within those power blocs, it's more like having a bunch of 2 year olds decide your future for you. Or worse, having the 2 year olds told what your future will be by their authority figures.

Of course, this is the same mechanic in "democratic" societies except much more complexity is involved. Why you would support either as "representative" government is a clear indication that your judgement is severely compromised.

In the real world, politicians can only be elected with lots of money involved. If someone who doesn't have access to billions of dollars to fund their campaign actually has a fantastic idea about governance that works then they're drowned out by puppets who haven't a clue about the most basic workings of governments who do have access to lots of money. But, even if those with access to the money did have 'the' idea that would work they're ideas become bastardized when they make their first promise in order to get the money. This of course leads back to the largest of power blocs in RL always having the keys to the kingdom.

It would be interesting if CCP would implement such mechanics, that in order to get the message out for candidates, that they would have to spend buttloads of isk doing so. I would be more satisfied about the situation knowing that dumbasses would spend so much to do it since this is a game and not RL and I couldn't care less about "elections" and "representation".

On the other hand, I do care about representation. But in order to have true representation, CCP would have to formalize the election mechanics in such a way that insure equal representation off all of the main sectors of Eve such as losec, nullsec, w-space & hisec.

But, that will never happen, so let CCP turn elections into a massive isk sink to fuel their own profitability through the purchase of plex to fund campaigns.



Interesting. Say, which Power Bloc does Trebor answer to?
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-03-26 21:51:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Xython
General timeline of pubbie moron response:

"Yay, we have an EVEU candidate, there's no way that evil Mittani will get back in, Nullsec is a tiny fraction of the game."

"Oh, wow, he's claiming a lot of votes, that's bad, all the Goonies are voiting with like 9 alts they made for the vote."

"Ok, well, they can't actually do that, hm. Well, they surely won't get in, CCP knows highsec are the only players that matter."

"Oh, god, he got in, he got in. And with how many votes? ****. ****!"

"Ok, it's not the end of the world, it's not the end of the world... I know, lets try to destroy the CSM by just making a new CSM that everyone (read: highsec botters) can join."

"Well, that might not work, quick, quick... something... we gotta get rid of Mittani... gotta... I know, lets make up a fake scandal and try to get him removed."

"Oh god, the goons are mocking us and CCP isn't doing anything, I know, lets just push to abolish the CSM entirely, if we can't control it no one gets to!"


Waiting for the next few steps. Unfortunately very little comes after Denial, and these particularly thick morons never hit "acceptance"...
Ghoest
#44 - 2012-03-26 22:04:42 UTC
Xython wrote:
General timeline of pubbie moron response:

"Yay, we have an EVEU candidate, there's no way that evil Mittani will get back in, Nullsec is a tiny fraction of the game."

"Oh, wow, he's claiming a lot of votes, that's bad, all the Goonies are voiting with like 9 alts they made for the vote."

"Ok, well, they can't actually do that, hm. Well, they surely won't get in, CCP knows highsec are the only players that matter."

"Oh, god, he got in, he got in. And with how many votes? ****. ****!"

"Ok, it's not the end of the world, it's not the end of the world... I know, lets try to destroy the CSM by just making a new CSM that everyone (read: highsec botters) can join."

"Well, that might not work, quick, quick... something... we gotta get rid of Mittani... gotta... I know, lets make up a fake scandal and try to get him removed."

"Oh god, the goons are mocking us and CCP isn't doing anything, I know, lets just push to abolish the CSM entirely, if we can't control it no one gets to!"


Waiting for the next few steps. Unfortunately very little comes after Denial, and these particularly thick morons never hit "acceptance"...



Dude this isnt about goons - from a meta game perspective, what Mittens did could even be called clever.

This is about the CSM as an institution. I have been pointing out the flaws of the CSM ever since the summit - and the flaws keep becoming more and more evident.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are

Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-03-26 22:20:06 UTC
Felix Grumbleduke wrote:
Interesting. Say, which Power Bloc does Trebor answer to?

The adults. Twisted

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery

Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#46 - 2012-03-26 23:22:26 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Aranakas wrote:
I like Age of Empires, that doesn't mean I'm going to go to their website every day and fill out their polls. If the next installment in the series is crap, I guess it's my fault by your logic.

If 85% of eve players do not vote, it's a crappy system, not a crappy playerbase.


If CSM voting was done on a daily basis you'd have a point. Even the carebears should be able to rouse themselves to click on a link once a year.


And that once-a-year link is presented to all and sundry at every login (until you close it, but of course you read an announcement before you closed it, right?) for two weeks (IIRC, no not IRC or that other chatty IRC, If I Recall Correctly IIRC). It's not like you had to go out of your way to find the information. Hell, you probably even got an in-game mail from Trebor to help out.

So really, you had to try to not get involved in voting for the CSM. It's harder to not hear about it and get involved than to just ignore it.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Templis CALSF
#47 - 2012-03-27 00:06:55 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
For most people, internet spaceship presidents and congressmen isn't an important enough topic to research in any depth.

That doesn't mean I want to have my game experience needlessly altered to fit someone else's agenda.

If you're "most people" then yes it does.

I think I can safely speak for most if not all CSMs past and present that we're proud to represent players that give a **** about the game, regardless of where or for what that **** is given.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

Ghoest
#48 - 2012-03-27 11:37:56 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Aranakas wrote:
For most people, internet spaceship presidents and congressmen isn't an important enough topic to research in any depth.

That doesn't mean I want to have my game experience needlessly altered to fit someone else's agenda.

If you're "most people" then yes it does.

I think I can safely speak for most if not all CSMs past and present that we're proud to represent players that give a **** about the game, regardless of where or for what that **** is given.


The problem really isnt that CSMs are bad people.
Its the system. The system needs to go. Its a public reltions ploy that is more negative than positive.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are

CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#49 - 2012-03-27 11:40:08 UTC
CSM discussions belong in the CSM forum. Threads about current events already exist. Stop spamming new threads. Thank you.

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

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