EVE General Discussion

How quickly we go from "It's a sandbox. Do what you want." TO "EVE is supposed to be a....(insert ill-considered, self-centered definition.)" This is why few of these people can be trusted. It's not that they're dishonest (which most of them are). It's that they can't juggle complicated things in their minds. It's got to be all THIS or all THAT with them.

The CCP weenies won't say either way. However, you have to believe they had something in mind when they dreamed all this up. Both sides can't be right (architecturally or mechanically speaking). It's doubtful the one-dimensional thinkers have a hope to be right. What CCP's intention was at inception seems to have changed like a deadbeat dad's at conception. They're standing back with their hands behind them pretending not to notice.

The MAJORITY (which isn't you Goonwaffle) subscribes (with money) to the notion it's a SANDBOX. It's not hard to visualize the really good and experienced players (Read: YOU Goonwaffles) have evolved a game for themselves that allow them to set up their own dynasties in null sec. Low sec players [can] be situated in between the beginners and the pros, too good to be in hi sec, not quite organized enough to move into null.

The WARS arise when competing interests in NULL start bumping into each other as they expand...push coming to shove over resources, transportation lanes and other such traditional reasons for eternal warfare.

All this talk about "make hi sec like this" so "null and low sec can be like this" is NOT a sandbox. It's tailoring the game mechanics to suit one method of play "EVE is supposed to be like...."

The MAJORITY of players AREN'T stupid. We see this being done. We have good bullshit detectors, so however it's being phrased, it is what it is. Chest beating, crowing, insulting, coercion are all what they've always been since we came out of the trees. No base, digital, MMO-l33t, vandal has a hope of convincing anyone (even themselves) that it's otherwise.

A sign of a cogent idea is it's not self-contradictory. There's a lot of people who need to either STFU or go back to the drawing board...but, that would be the intelligent thing to do...something not operating in this environment (so the naked eye can detect it.)

This sounds very reasonable and logical.

Then again we are talking about a company that tried to put a pay to win scheme in the game only a year ago.

Let's see what they do.

I don't doubt this a bit. I can't see Goonwaffle being themselves without a concerted effort to make [your] mark out where it counts. Regardless of my ascerbic tone, I've said time and again the Goons deserve respect for what they've achieved (despite having a Mitt on one hand). More power to you.

Don't worry honey, the veld will stay in highsec. Maybe.

How dare they try to fix something the majority of the community has been complaining about for years!

With inflation, he must play 30-50 percent more. Cause only null-sec has access to raw inputs.

Ok, I'll take the troll-bait.

Not true at all seeing as most null-sec residents have one or, more likely, several high-sec alts conducting commerce and industrial operations to feed their null-sec habits. Any economic changes that hit high-sec will also impact null-sec residents in one fashion or another.

Again, this is not correct. Null sec players have vast high-sec interests, whether they are in the trade of goods, the researching of blue prints or the manufacture of tech 2 items, that are impacted just as much as any high-sec-only player's activities.

Furthermore, just because null sec residents have control over a valuable moon material, it does not mean that they automagically gain ISK. Those materials are:

1) Used for production purposes.
2) Taken to market for sale.
3) Hoarded for sale at a later point in time when pricing might be more favorable.

Only when those goods are sold on the [high sec] market do they become monetized and moon holders enriched. At any other point, they only have the potential to be worth something.

Huh? Put that tin foil hat away. CCP's "game design" aka "economic meddling" is not a desirable thing from the perspective of either high or null-sec residents. CCP's marketing term "sandbox" couldn't be further away from the truth of things with CCP's heavy hand in EVE economics and industry. Nobody wants CCP's [misguided] design efforts screwing with their gaming enjoyment.

I will start from this.

As I posted - repeatedly - in another thread yet dumbs don't understand, there's much more to do in EvE than sweeping the dust under the rug and apply some little "rules" update here and there.


EvE had a stable and functional foundations model for a while but had a pathetically low number of subscriptions.
When they wanted more, they had to change that model and that model held till 2011.

Now it's time for EvE to outlive itself again and become a proper > 500k subs MMO.

In order to do so, a LOT has to be done, not just some stupid NPC taxes to be implemented and a couple of rules to be tweaked.

The Devs have to sit down with a proper Game Designer and solve the ancient EvE shortocomings:

- Low conversion from new players to long standing players.

- EvE PvP rocks, but also sucks. Sorry if I am probably the first to say it. It has many good things but lacks many modern things. I.e. other competitive games come with an official ladders system (ELO or whatever) and support ranking of whole teams. Imagine always having an EvE TV where you can tune in and look at the best teams playing each against the other in a never ending action that ends with the official yearly tournament.

Other points where PvP is bad: takes a long time both to get a gank (i.e. put bait ship and wait... wait... wait...) and to get a "fair" fight that won't involve cynoing a blob + RR + falcon and the usual garbage.
It might sound cheap or stupid but I appreciate how in other games I can log in and enter the fray and get a kill (or be killed) by 1 minute from log in time tops.

Would it hurt the "harsh cold EvE Universe with consequences" if I could risk a ship within 10 minutes instead of 1 hour?

Very low team art customization and even less personal customization. Luckily they seem to sloooowly getting there.

I won't waste more bandwidth with other 20 possible suggestions but one: individual skill.
In EvE when a fight starts the involved setups may decide the outcome. This is good but adding in a far better ability to micromanage the fights would really make PvP FUN. I love positional games, strategic placement games or where there's rich "forniture" providing for shelter / denying line of sight.

EvE gets those outdated collision bubbles (seems nVidia are working with CCP on that), there's no hide and seek, too little precise dog fighting (unless you consider hysterically clicking a manual vector path as effective control).

All of the above factor certainly detract from the possible PvPers.
I used to be in a PvP corp, but once I lost the ability to play video games enough, I had to resort PvPing in certainly lesser games but that give quicker action.

- Very bad, outdated, out-of reality or even sadistic knots of rules. Why the hell a PLAYER has to learn that hidden timer X in condition Y turns into Z usually with little feedback?
Why is Hi sec is like it is?

Why does even hi sec exist? Was it a solution or a patch? Why didn't the game designers look at WHY people won't go out of hi sec instead of TRYING (and grandiously failing) to force them out?
How comes, EvE is the one PvP game where most people do the impossible to not PvP? Why? This is the question. Why and how to make them WANT to PvP? NOT how to force them to PvP.
Because making an enthusiastic playerbase want to PvP is certainly going to bring vastly better results in the long term than a majority disgruntly being forced into it.

You see? EvE has to change, has to change DEEP, not just some taxes and some wardec rules.

WTF is a wardec to begin with if not a failure? I mean, my guilds in other MMOs I play(or played) don't stop killing crap all the time and crave to challenge the "famed" other opponents.

Instead in EvE, a minority does that (and very well!), and all the rest have to be forced into PvP with such an artificial mechanism?
WHY don't they want to fight?
CCP has done so many questionnaires and polls in the past why not sending one to each player asking what they feel is stopping them from getting out and pew pew?
They have the ability to solve such problems, just look at how well WHs solved the "I want to play 0.0 but without the usual 0.0 bull$hit" dilemma.

- Better content. No, L4 missions are neither better nor adequate nor enough nor compelling content. Incursions are a nice new concept and even push people to team together by making them want to team together.
Restructure the ancient content, salvage some COSMOS something, else EvE will never attract the huge subscriptions it could.

Also, create something like PvP-in-PvE, that is PvE that can be done with full PvP readiness. Something like FW missions but less stupid. Where to get in with a PvP fit team with a mechanism making very possible to find an opposing team and who wins gets a prize enough to make them want to risk. This in other MMOs is achieved by a point system (the team who does more XYZ completes the PvE, the other team must undo or slow down such XYZ) and quite stupid AI (the current AI is therefore more than fit! ) that won't affect the PvP capability of those who get met by the incoming team.

- I won't talk about improving the UI since that would fill in a Bible. Suffice to say that making a refurbished Overview may or may not help if the new Overview should just be different and data shuffled elsewhere (i.e. a limited HUD).

I like that idea. They should have to fight for POSes like everyone else does.

Precisely. +1

EVE being a sandbox means having every kind of activities and letting players decide what to do in EVE. People have a crapload of activities to choose from and reducing the game to a pvp-centric game will take away the sandbox just as well as removing the pvp-part of the game.

We can't all be pvp-ers as we can't all be carebears. Simple as that and the game needs both.