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Double tankers?
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Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#1 - 2012-03-26 13:12:36 UTC
There are quite a few ships out there with double (or even triple) damage bonuses.

As far as I have seen, there is no ship class out there that has a double tanking bonus.

There are clear uses for such a ship, though I suspect it wouldn't be all that popular with a large portion of players.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Daeva Teresa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-03-26 14:49:15 UTC
hmm double tank bonus with no dmg bonus ... usable in pvp? NO, everyone will ignore it ... sansha? absolutely NO ... rating? LVL4? NO .... I just cant see that clear uses you are talking about. Maybe you could be so nice and enlighten me.

CCP really please dont use Upgraded, Limited, Experimental and Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its really easy to understand that the item is better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#3 - 2012-03-26 14:54:04 UTC
I believe you, that you can't see them.
I expect most people won't see the potential uses, and how much utility there is depends a lot on the particular bonuses and what someone intends to do with them.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Daeva Teresa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-03-26 14:59:43 UTC
So you want ship that most people will not find use for? I really dont understand how will this help eve other than stupid noobs taking even more overtanked ships to LVL4 missions (so they can enjoy them for like 2 hours each). :-)

CCP really please dont use Upgraded, Limited, Experimental and Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its really easy to understand that the item is better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order.
Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-03-26 15:07:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aranakas
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
There are quite a few ships out there with double (or even triple) damage bonuses.

As far as I have seen, there is no ship class out there that has a double tanking bonus.

There are clear uses for such a ship, though I suspect it wouldn't be all that popular with a large portion of players.


You damn dirty DOUBLE TANKER!!

(Just fit double armor reps).

P.S. Look up DuraMaller

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#6 - 2012-03-26 15:12:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzy Warstl
I expect that you have hit on one of the things that people would use them for, and you said you couldn't think of anything.

Maybe they would end up being nothing better than floating pacifiers, but I have reason to believe that people would find better uses for them than that.

@Aranakas: Yeah, I know you can put together some really heavy tank fits already, but it's pretty clear from the ship bonuses that DPS is king.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#7 - 2012-03-26 15:24:06 UTC
Damnation has double armor bonus:

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile velocity and 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level

Command Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to armor hitpoints and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links per level
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#8 - 2012-03-26 15:27:20 UTC  |  Edited by: mxzf
But what would it actually be used for? Why would you want or need such a thing? All I see happening is it being tanked either way at different times (the same way that some ships, like the Cane, can be tanked either way just fine). The game is set up to make it such that it's more efficient to tank one damage type or the other, rather than trying to tank both. And if such a fit was made, it would be a brick fit anyways since you wouldn't have room for damage mods (because it's armor tanking) or EWAR mods (because it's shield tanking).

Edit: And the reason that DPS bonuses are more popular than tanking bonuses is that two heavy tanks fighting is called a stalemate, two high-DPS ships fighting makes for a nail-biting down-to-the-wire damage race to see who can pop the other first. One of them makes for much more interesting fights, guess which one :p
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-03-26 15:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Only semi-related, but I like the idea of a ship that gives two tank bonuses - one to armor and one to shield, along with enough low and medium slots to make either one equally viable.

It will make people think harder about the different types of tanking and decide which would be better for what they want to do, instead of the cookie cutter "this ship is armor tank, this ship is shield tank" that applies to most of the ships in the game.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-03-26 15:38:31 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
I expect that you have hit on one of the things that people would use them for, and you said you couldn't think of anything.

Maybe they would end up being nothing better than floating pacifiers, but I have reason to believe that people would find better uses for them than that.

@Aranakas: Yeah, I know you can put together some really heavy tank fits already, but it's pretty clear from the ship bonuses that DPS is king.


A friend of mine has a dual-rep navy domi that he uses to run missions practically AFK. He can get some 1200 DPS cap-stable tank with mission-specific hardeners and low skills.

If he were to get tackled in nullsec, it would take AT LEAST two ships to take him down since no battleship in eve can do 1200 DPS unless it's pimp fit.

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green
MushroomMushroom
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-03-26 15:53:26 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
I expect that you have hit on one of the things that people would use them for, and you said you couldn't think of anything.

Maybe they would end up being nothing better than floating pacifiers, but I have reason to believe that people would find better uses for them than that.

@Aranakas: Yeah, I know you can put together some really heavy tank fits already, but it's pretty clear from the ship bonuses that DPS is king.


A friend of mine has a dual-rep navy domi that he uses to run missions practically AFK. He can get some 1200 DPS cap-stable tank with mission-specific hardeners and low skills.

If he were to get tackled in nullsec, it would take AT LEAST two ships to take him down since no battleship in eve can do 1200 DPS unless it's pimp fit.


Hint: E-Neuts


Uses for an over tanked ship:
1. Transporting valuable cargo in highsec without being ganked
2. Afk mission running/running level 5s
3. Bait/Hot Drop Cyno/FC ship
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#12 - 2012-03-26 16:29:51 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Damnation has double armor bonus:

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile velocity and 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level

Command Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to armor hitpoints and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links per level

I missed that one, and I really should have known to look at it, too.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2012-03-26 23:36:27 UTC
Aranakas wrote:


If he were to get tackled in nullsec, it would take AT LEAST two ships to take him down since no battleship in eve can do 1200 DPS unless it's pimp fit.



Blaster fit megathron with ogre IIs breaks 1200 DPS, and anything with a neut fitted will kill it easily enough. I know you can top 1k with a battlecruiser without too much trouble too.




Anyway, on topic, Why? What roles are you trying to fill with this thing, besides expensive bait?
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#14 - 2012-03-27 00:17:04 UTC
other than a vessel that needs to persist in battle AND is a valid target, like a damnation, I don't see why dual-tanked ships are needed.

Where the science gets done
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#15 - 2012-03-27 00:33:33 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
I expect that you have hit on one of the things that people would use them for, and you said you couldn't think of anything.

Maybe they would end up being nothing better than floating pacifiers, but I have reason to believe that people would find better uses for them than that.

@Aranakas: Yeah, I know you can put together some really heavy tank fits already, but it's pretty clear from the ship bonuses that DPS is king.


A friend of mine has a dual-rep navy domi that he uses to run missions practically AFK. He can get some 1200 DPS cap-stable tank with mission-specific hardeners and low skills.

If he were to get tackled in nullsec, it would take AT LEAST two ships to take him down since no battleship in eve can do 1200 DPS unless it's pimp fit.

1200 DPS tank with rat specific hardeners means he'd still die to a hurricane BECAUSE OF NEUTS. Plus players don't mimic the local rats damage types.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#16 - 2012-03-27 00:39:27 UTC
A ship that is almost all defence and no offence will not even be considered as a target in large scale PvP because there are others that will pose a significantly higher threat than it as well as be easier to take down. Arguably the Maller has this sort of problem, as with the Prophecy. You don't see them very much, at all. And keep in mind this is with a SINGLE tank bonus.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#17 - 2012-03-27 00:54:52 UTC
I don't think this game needs more "supertanking" ships. Those we already have are often used as logistic/booster support are are notoriously difficult to kill while they are doing their job (ex. Damnation).

And despite what all the naysayers say... this WILL be used as a fleet comp by FCs and/or players that are extremely adverse to losing their ships and/or want a fleet that would be too difficult to alpha/grind down while [slowly] attacking a structure.

How did you Veterans start?
Zanzbar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-03-27 02:31:31 UTC
Aranakas wrote:


If he were to get tackled in nullsec, it would take AT LEAST two ships to take him down since no battleship in eve can do 1200 DPS unless it's pimp fit.


Wrong, I have 2 battleships that do quite a bit more then that and the more expensive one only cost a bit over 200 mil and that's not considered pimp-fit price by any means.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#19 - 2012-03-27 14:17:39 UTC
Aglais wrote:
A ship that is almost all defence and no offence will not even be considered as a target in large scale PvP because there are others that will pose a significantly higher threat than it as well as be easier to take down. Arguably the Maller has this sort of problem, as with the Prophecy. You don't see them very much, at all. And keep in mind this is with a SINGLE tank bonus.

The Drake would like a word with you about the popularity of tanking bonuses.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs