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If you play a high sec game, be afraid, be very afraid

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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-03-26 07:19:50 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
To all the null sec zealots, I am certain that all these changes provide you with immense glee.
But if you notice the title of the thread, it was not addressed to you.

You laugh now. You will continue to laugh as the high sec tears spread.
I imagine you will continue to laugh into the early / mid fall, until CCP announces there is a drop in subscriptions..

subs only drop when highsec is catered to, see incursion and tyrannis

hth
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-03-26 07:21:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
hey anyone reading this i have a noctis tackled in NIZJ-0 in esoteria but my anathema can't crack the noctis' passive shield regen


someone plz help i will fleet u and you can warp to this anom and we will share this km : twisted:

http://i.imgur.com/2fgg8.jpg
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#23 - 2012-03-26 07:26:09 UTC
Risk vs reward is what this game was founded on, and it's broken, way broken. High sec income needs to drop by 1/2 across the board, or content needs to be revamped to actually be difficult (lvl4s for example were created before rigs or T3 BSs were released).
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-03-26 07:27:36 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

subs only drop when highsec is catered to, see incursion and tyrannis

hth



That's not entirely right. The problem is that those expansion were all around ****, not that they catered to high sec. I'm pretty sure high sec dwellers don't enjoy moving dots around on a planet any more than I do. Lol
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#25 - 2012-03-26 07:28:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
I <3 Soundwave!

Vince Snetterton wrote:

Datacores: If you are smart, you will cash out before Inferno. Soundwave says those words between 8:30 of the interview. He believes the datacore system is "terribly abused". Those are his words. BTW, there will be an ISK charge to get your datacores from an agent


This is the only passive income in EVE, it's also perfectly safe and needs to be fixed. Good!


Quote:
High sec Incursions: Some kind of nerf. This has been done to death in a ton of threads, no need for comments


Even Incursion-runners agree that they need balancing, everybody thinks this is... Good!

Quote:
ALL NPC bounties: At 13:45 to 15:00, a nerf of a suggested 10% across the board, all regions. Soundwave called this the "emergency button" button. Of course, at 12:50 of the interview that 10-15% of all NPC kills came out of Drone Regions. I doubt it will be a one to one ratio, but if they nerf all NPC income by 10%, yet Drones start having bounties, will not that be a wash for null sec income, but a high sec income nerf.

Mining: No direct comment on high sec mining, but it will be better as low end mins prices rise, assuming null sec mining does not crank up. Soundwave at 11:35 says 40% of the high end minerals come from the null regions. That means nothing to high sec miners, but will kill high sec industrialists who rely on their high end mins from null sec being sold in high sec


There are drones also in hisec, just FYI. Anyway hisec income really needs to be nerfed to the ground, spirit of EVE is to reward those who carve out their own space, co-operate to maintain and improve it and command their own destiny, not those who rely on NPC mechanisms for their protection.

This is really the best thing that could happen to EVE economy. There has been a massive power creep caused by higher income levels across the board, and the abundant supply of artficially low-priced minerals from botting in Drone Regions. This is a huge factor affecting PVP, ship losses are irrelevant, you see pirate ships and T3s in addition to battlecruisers and battleships, which are considered disposable. Good!

Quote:
High sec transaction taxes: At 13:28, he says empitransaction cost going up, because they want to reign in the economy. This has the biggest impact of course on the high sec players


By far the most transactions happen in hisec, and this inludes absolutely everyone in EVE. Trade happens in the hubs, not in low, null or wspace - this has therefore the biggest impact on all of us, and is a much needed ISK sink. Good!

Quote:
Soundwave makes it clear that he wants to shake Eve to its foundations. He says, and once again a quote " I kind of hope things go terribly wrong" at 8:02 of interview. I understand he does not want to design a game for specific results (his words), but many of the changes are going to trash high sec industrial chars specifically


In real economies, **** happens every now and then due to their open and chaotic nature. Power blocs fall, new opportunities and threats emerge. Some get rich, some poor. In a closed, virtual economy like EVE, this needs to be simulated. I find it refreshing and really hope for a massive depression - good!

Easy on the tinfoil, bud. This is good for the game, for everybody- with some thinking and right attitude, these changes can make you rich.

.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#26 - 2012-03-26 07:29:44 UTC
it's really rather amusing, all this peanut gallery gibberish. Most of the people talking out of thier ass don't know or care to know the history of EVE.

There was a time there was no Concord and EVE was the wild west of MMO's with "HTFU EVE" mantra ruling the skies of New Eden.
They alos couldn't break 5K subs with that model and soon changed it.
Since that time, CCP stopped being an Inde corp and became a larger entity with debt to reflect it.
If they killed carbear in EVE I would put money on it, EVE would drop to max 30K Subs with 6K login (like it used to be not that many years ago) and with CCP's current debt, the company would bankrupt.
A company that is 10 years old is not old, it's a new company. A company that went from 75K revenue to 6 million revenue a month in 10 years is what is known to investors as a bubble.

EVE is not a l33tboi PvP bear game. EVE is a sandbox. It is Industry, it is exploration, it is PvE, it is PvP, it is mining, manufacturing, it is many, many things and you can smack talk all you want but the fact is, EVE needs all its players. It needs them all to feel achieved and it needs them to be having fun.

Or
It
Dies.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#27 - 2012-03-26 07:32:51 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
...


I live in High Sec and approve of all those things. I especially like that CCP Soundwave played a bit of UO again, perhaps it reminded him of where EVE came from. He should give CCP Greyscale some free time at work to play other Sandbox MMOs as well, might help with his ideas for Crimewatch.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-03-26 07:33:16 UTC
Skydell wrote:
If they killed carbear in EVE I would put money on it, EVE would drop to max 30K Subs with 6K login (like it used to be not that many years ago) and with CCP's current debt, the company would bankrupt.


I bet the population that experiences the most amount of churn is people who never leave high sec. CCP is just trying to allow carebears to experience the fun the rest of us are having. People who do nothing but mine or run missions must be miserable.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-03-26 07:33:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Skydell wrote:
it's really rather amusing, all this peanut gallery gibberish. Most of the people talking out of thier ass don't know or care to know the history of EVE..

here allow me

unprecedented steady growth and retention of users in a fickle MMO market for nearly 10 years until highsec-exclusive, anti-PVP expansions were ushered in, bringing about the summer of rage until CCP wisened up and started making PVP-related expansions again

threats of 'put highsec in pvp and watch us all leave' made by idiots were exposed as nothing but hot air, with all evidence pointing to the exact opposite
Iggep
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2012-03-26 07:37:23 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
To all the null sec zealots, I am certain that all these changes provide you with immense glee.
But if you notice the title of the thread, it was not addressed to you.

You laugh now. You will continue to laugh as the high sec tears spread.
I imagine you will continue to laugh into the early / mid fall, until CCP announces there is a drop in subscriptions.

I am looking forward to how people that have a raft of subs with chars focused on datacore production will find a way to justify keeping their accounts open. Some fellow posted in the industry forum he has quite a few accounts designed primarily for datacore farming. How many accounts pray tell will he need / feasibly run in low sec FW to get those same datacores?

And when some high sec mission runner sees his income nerfed 10%, I am sure he will have no problem just playing 10% more to gain the same income.

And when some industrialist who hates null is getting murdered trying to compete with null sec industrialists, no problem there. I am sure he will have a complete change of heart and join goons.

Plus all those incursion runner who opened up new accounts because of the income that they got from Vanguards, I am certain they will keep those accounts open.

But hey, it's OK.
You zealots do your happy dance now.

It will be interesting to see if CCP is doing a happy dance as well say around October.


It strikes me that the thing that is not really being talked about is botting and the impact its actually had on the EVE economy. It seems to me that a hammer is being used to swat a rather pesky "fly" when what is really needed is for CCP to eradicate the botting problem. How many stories do we need to read of alliances basing their Cap fleets and ship replacement programs on the back of botting before botting is actually taken seriously by CCP? CCP already said that incursions aren't anywhere near the main faucet in the economy, bounties are. So run daily reports (I'd be shocked if they didn't already!) to see which accounts are in the top 10-20% of bounty earnings and dig into them. White list those accounts which are clearly not bots, and start banning the others. Ban the IPs and proxy addresses and over time you take care of a lot of this without having to make very many changes overall.

An annual ban wave is not sufficient, to mollify the wishes of the player base or for the economy clearly. More emphasis needs to be made -- strong, sustained emphasis.

http://www.iggepsrealm.com - the ramblings of a spaceship driving techophile
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#31 - 2012-03-26 07:37:49 UTC
Also, RE: high-sec transaction tax, have a listen again because it sounds like it will rise but also be offset more by skill. You could see a situation where having good trade skills gives you roughly the same tax as now. Honestly, this is just cherry-picking doom and gloom panic. OP should chill, smoke a blunt, and see what happens.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#32 - 2012-03-26 07:38:00 UTC
Vince, I should say I have no gain or loss in this matter at all, as I have no income at all, I do no missions, I don't rat, I don't do incursions, I have no industry.... I used to be a 0.0 carebear, doing anomalies and complexes... I am not super rich, but for the last 6+ months I been surviving and having fun on just a mere 3bil (sometimes getting ships for free, sometimes killing stuff that gave some nice loot, maintaining the isk)

all I do is PvP... so here is the question... WHY? why do all these high sec carebears complain about "nerfing" their income? when they hardly lose much isk when they don't pvp... they want more isk to grow faster? to buy that 10bil ratting ship? (or in some cases earn isk for their 0.0 pvp(in which case they should be earning it in 0.0)?...

Point is... the goal in EVE isn't only to earn isk... it's to have fun. (and it doesn't take that much isk to have fun)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Iggep
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2012-03-26 07:40:21 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Skydell wrote:
If they killed carbear in EVE I would put money on it, EVE would drop to max 30K Subs with 6K login (like it used to be not that many years ago) and with CCP's current debt, the company would bankrupt.


I bet the population that experiences the most amount of churn is people who never leave high sec. CCP is just trying to allow carebears to experience the fun the rest of us are having. People who do nothing but mine or run missions must be miserable.


I can vouch for that in my case. Can't wait to get back out to nullsec personally. Started a new account a few weeks ago just for that purpose. Logistics is the route he's going and when he's ready I'll be headed back out to null to enjoy the fighting again. My other accounts will stay in high to do the other things I like to do in EVE.

http://www.iggepsrealm.com - the ramblings of a spaceship driving techophile
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-03-26 07:42:31 UTC
okay after shooting the noctis with 12 dps for half an hour with half a dozen enemy tengus in local i have decided to disengage before i run out of barrage S
Lexmana
#35 - 2012-03-26 08:03:16 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
Yes indeed, one CCP person making such statements as has been done has not considered the serious long term repurcussions.

Be Afraid ? I would say it's very much like commercial suicide on CCP's behalf.


Haha, their marketing people seem to think quite the opposite. David Reid, CCPs new Chief Marketing Officer, was very clear on how they wanted to market EVE. It was to tell the player's stories and things like Murder Inc. and the Goonswarm recruitment scam. There was nothing carebear at all in his presentation of EVE.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-03-26 08:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Kind of gutted as i have just sunk some sp into research agent related skills but whatever, game balances are to be expected.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#37 - 2012-03-26 08:27:16 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Skydell wrote:
If they killed carbear in EVE I would put money on it, EVE would drop to max 30K Subs with 6K login (like it used to be not that many years ago) and with CCP's current debt, the company would bankrupt.


I bet the population that experiences the most amount of churn is people who never leave high sec. CCP is just trying to allow carebears to experience the fun the rest of us are having. People who do nothing but mine or run missions must be miserable.


That's snake oil propaganda that's only usefull in the forum wars.

Every single account holder in EVE over 6 months old has been to null and was greeted by a wall of excuses from tinfoil hat null bloc's that had every right to be paranoid because of the huge impact Meta has on a broken permissions system. We all went there with billions, got sold a bill of goods and ended back in high sec farming missions to replace our ships.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#38 - 2012-03-26 08:31:28 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skydell wrote:
it's really rather amusing, all this peanut gallery gibberish. Most of the people talking out of thier ass don't know or care to know the history of EVE..

here allow me

unprecedented steady growth and retention of users in a fickle MMO market for nearly 10 years until highsec-exclusive, anti-PVP expansions were ushered in, bringing about the summer of rage until CCP wisened up and started making PVP-related expansions again

threats of 'put highsec in pvp and watch us all leave' made by idiots were exposed as nothing but hot air, with all evidence pointing to the exact opposite


Based on false assumptions, forum claims and pure propaganda. You know it, I know it, CCP knows it.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#39 - 2012-03-26 08:38:32 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Skydell wrote:
If they killed carbear in EVE I would put money on it, EVE would drop to max 30K Subs with 6K login (like it used to be not that many years ago) and with CCP's current debt, the company would bankrupt.


I bet the population that experiences the most amount of churn is people who never leave high sec. CCP is just trying to allow carebears to experience the fun the rest of us are having. People who do nothing but mine or run missions must be miserable.


That's snake oil propaganda that's only usefull in the forum wars.

Every single account holder in EVE over 6 months old has been to null and was greeted by a wall of excuses from tinfoil hat null bloc's that had every right to be paranoid because of the huge impact Meta has on a broken permissions system. We all went there with billions, got sold a bill of goods and ended back in high sec farming missions to replace our ships.


:D I find enjoyment in lossing my ships in stupid ways, in siturations where I know theres a very very good chance of my death.
Last week I was scouting for a fleet, as I jump into a gang of about 6+ cynabals 3+ vagabonds a rapier and a curse, and some other nice stuff, I was in a stiletto and I told my fleet I was sure I was going to die now :D my addrenalin was pumping because of the imminent death I was facing, I knew I had a chance to make it back to the gate unless they were fast enough at locking, webbing/scramming..., and even then there was a chance they could alpha me with all those high tracking cynabals and vagabonds....

:P I gate crashed! with only 5% damage taken to my shields and no cap left lol, and this is why I love eve.... you never know whats on the other side of the gate, but often gate crashing is your best chance of survival...

Short story brought to you by Bubanni the Carebear

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#40 - 2012-03-26 08:39:03 UTC
It's pretty easy: nerf highsec to being just a place to be safely afk the subscription numbers will tell CCP if it was a good idea or not. I don't care any more though I like highsec(except incursions) as it is.

Let judgement day come.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.