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Ships & Modules

 
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Help Needed: Transport Ships

Author
Ai Shun
#1 - 2012-01-17 23:34:48 UTC
I've been training with a plan from EVEMon for flying Transport Ships. There are still ~30 days before I finish everything, including the Cloaking but I can fly the base Transport Ships already. I am considering bumping Cloaking up, but with a number of skills still to complete (Finishing Engineering V now) I don't think there is much value in it at the moment.

However, there is one 0.4 jump on my regular trade routes and every once in a while I will lose a ship there. The losses are starting to get annoying, mostly because it sets me back a few hours in terms of time and ISK invested.

I've read these threads on the Bustard / Crane / similar ships and at the moment I am leaning strongly towards the Crane. Plus, the skills for using that will be useful if I wanted to move into other roles.

Crane vs Bustard
Bustard vs Impel

What I am not clear about are the fits required for this, what would be recommended and why. This may be a bit of a learning experience for me, despite playing for almost a year I'm still feeling like a very big novice.

And yes, it may be foolish, but I am a Caldari pilot. While I can fly Gallente Industrials (V) I prefer to stick with my comfort-ships.

So, I am hoping for some advice on what would make a good fit for a Crane and why, please. If any of you can help me out with some comments I would greatly appreciate it.
Keo Makue
The Seven Shadows
#2 - 2012-01-18 03:04:56 UTC
The Crane is a good ship...it is too bad it gets disrespected by others for its cargo capacity. The mids however make it a much more survivable ship:

High:
Cloak

Mid:
MWD, ECM Burst, 2x Sensor Dampeners

Lows:
2x Int. Stabs

Rigs:
Fit to taste

I am not going to put it into EFT format for all the warriors out there...find your own modules that fit your skills. ECM burst is good against frigates that have point on you, and the damps are for long range points (hopefully).
Ai Shun
#3 - 2012-01-18 03:16:03 UTC
Thank you, that is interesting. I'd been so focused on avoidance, I'd not considered the options for a controlled offense to escape.

How would you deal with a warp scrambled type scenario with a fit like that? Try to break their lock and then use the MWD + warp to escape?
Purehydro
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-01-18 07:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Purehydro
Fly the bustard and use the Cloak-MWD trick with Acceleration Control trained to IV and an improved cloaking device. You can actually program the whole thing to one button on programmable keyboards.

With Acc. Control IV my Mastodon does it perfectly every time. I worked it out with math, despite being lousy at it now. Oops

Once you master the Cloak-MWD trick and get Cloaking IV, LS becomes one big candy store for you if you do your research. I'd strongly suggest Evasive Maneuvering V and the best agility implant you can afford/fit.

Edit: If you are on a gate just use the cloak-mwd trick. If you are at a station, ctrl+space and dock before the timer is up. Go do something else or update your market orders. They eventually get bored.
Revii Lagoon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-01-19 00:19:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Revii Lagoon
Personally, I use a prorator and here is why. First off, it is one of two ships which can fit a cruiser hull with cargo expanders + rigs (The other being the Viator), Second, it is the only transport ship which can fit a cruiser hull plus all the fittings needed for it (Only like 200 m3 left on the viator, which usually isn't enough).

For me, Cargo space has never been that big of an issue, plus the prorator can fit the most out of any cloaky transport ships. Sure the larger amount of cargo space may seem apealing, but the primary use of a transport ship is to ensure that your goods arrive safely to their destination, rather than worrying about the time required to transport it. Is it really all that bad to make a couple extra jumps and have a 99.9% chance of surivival rather than run the risk of loosing your ship and cargo?

The reason I always use a cloaky transport instead of the crappy variant, is because of this: Warp core strength doesn't matter at all. The align times of the Impel / Occator / Bustard / Mastadon are terrible, meaning you will most likely get alphaed (Blown up by the first trike) by a gate camp regardless of what warp core strength you have. With cloaky transports, as long as you know how to fly it properly, you should almost NEVER loose a cloaky transport ship in low sec because once you are cloaked, the time required to decloak you is much longer than it takes to align and warp off, and since there is no bubbles to stop you, you have a very very high chance of getting away.

I have lost 2 transport ships in the 2 or so years I have been flying them, one was because I got alphaed on a low sec station by a maelstrom, and the other time was due to a null sec gate camp with bubbles. To give you an idea how long I had my first prorator, I lost it ~2 months ago and it had large rigs (Meaning the ship itself was VERY old) and I had been constantly using it for nearly 2 years.

For the OP's case, I would go with either a Viator, or Crane, cloaky transports are without a doubt the 2nd best way of moving stuff through low sec (The best way being jump freighters)

As for the fitting of a cloaky transport:

Cloak
Cargo Expanders / Nanofiber Internal Structures if cargo isn't too large
Cargo Expander Rigs

Don't fit any sort of tank, your tank is your cloak, if you get caught no amount of tank will save you.
Ai Shun
#6 - 2012-01-19 03:19:06 UTC
Revii Lagoon wrote:
For the OP's case, I would go with either a Viator, or Crane, cloaky transports are without a doubt the 2nd best way of moving stuff through low sec (The best way being jump freighters)


Thank you for that. I am eyeing Jump Freighters in the future, but they have a 6+ billion ISK price tag and that excludes the running cost. I need to have enough to replace it before I can go that far. I do however have enough for a regular Freighter and I'm tempted to pick one up so I can do some high-sec hauling with it.

There is one player that has a Freighter for Jump Freighter upgrade service where you can trade in the Freighter for the cost you purchased it; and set that off against the Jump Freighter.

Seems like a good goal to work towards; so thank you for the helpful feedback.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-01-19 03:24:09 UTC
Crane is GOD mode between Jita and Rens trips, he's untouchable in low sec and extremely hard to catch in null sec.

Doesn't means they never get caught but if you know what you're doing the chances they ever get you are really close to 0
Lady Oxycontin
The Industrialist Union
#8 - 2012-01-19 07:52:36 UTC
If you're getting killed in cloaky haulers, I'd be loathe to fly a JF. That being said, Freighters if properly backed up with the marketing or industrial skills are pure gold. An Orca will do in a pinch, but freighters are fabulous. Don't buy a freighter unless you know how it's going to work for you.

I've seen quite a few Cranes get popped on kb's in my neck of LS. I'm not really sure what the pilots are doing wrong. Ugh
Ai Shun
#9 - 2012-01-19 08:51:08 UTC
Lady Oxycontin wrote:
If you're getting killed in cloaky haulers, I'd be loathe to fly a JF. That being said, Freighters if properly backed up with the marketing or industrial skills are pure gold. An Orca will do in a pinch, but freighters are fabulous. Don't buy a freighter unless you know how it's going to work for you.

I've seen quite a few Cranes get popped on kb's in my neck of LS. I'm not really sure what the pilots are doing wrong. Ugh


I'm not capable of flying a cloaky hauler yet. My losses thus far have been in a lowly Badger Mark II, so nothing special. Fortunately I can manufacture them myself, so replacing one lost is not TOO a big a deal. (Except for the cargo, of course)

I've added all the Certificates that EVEMon suggested, and I've got another 28 or so days to go for that. I do have Transport Ships though; so could pick one up.

But, I'm gathering information and researching first and getting to know the ropes from more experienced pilots; so thank you for all the feedback thus far everyone!
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-01-19 08:55:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Whiite
Personaly I go with this: Crane

High:

Covert-opps cloak.

Mid.

2X invunrability shield II
small shield booster II
Y-t8 Overcharged Micro warp drive

Low

Nanfiber internal structure II

Riggs

2X Medium low Friction Nozle joints I

Small explanation:

Nano's over stabalisers to keep your signature down, little less agillity but I consider not being targeted more importand and more speed when you need to get the hell out of a bubble.
The rigs: bring more agillity.

To be honest aside from the MDW I've never used the midslots, Still looking for something else to do with those, when they catch you the shields and harderners will do you little good anyway. thought about Ewar though the time you need to target ships takes to long.

On the other hand as long as you don't do anything extremly stupid (like forgetting to cloak) you're untoachable in low sec and they realy need to work hard to catch you in 0.0.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#11 - 2012-01-19 09:35:55 UTC
In general anything with cov ops cloak and fast aligning is pretty impossible to lose in low sec.
There are instalock set ups that might get a pod shot at you if you get unlucky or maybe that ceptor pilot actually know his stuff but otherwise BR is likely the safest method of transporting stuff around in EVE.
Brotha Umad
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-01-19 09:56:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Brotha Umad
Keo Makue wrote:
The mids however make it a much more survivable ship:

High:
Cloak

Mid:
MWD, ECM Burst, 2x Sensor Dampeners

Lows:
2x Int. Stabs

Rigs:
Fit to taste


Maybe the mids could make you survivable if you did not wasted them. ECM burst on a ship without bonus : 6 km range. Not only you need to be tackled by someone who camps gates with a scrambler, you also need him to noobishly orbit you very close as to get under you nonexistant guns. Not to mention that it is still a chance based module.
Dampeners for long range points ? Well why not, if you can find an enemy that can't target past 24km when dampened, and more importantly, that will not pop you even before you lock him.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2012-01-19 19:40:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Crane Blockade Runner (BR):
* Always carry 2 Expanded Cargohold II with you and swap the lows as needed.
* If you get uncloaked you are dead. Activate and overheat the mids, head for the gate, and hope you get lucky.
* Never use Inertial Stabilizer II as the meta 4 version has the same agility bonus but smaller signature penalty.
* Don't fit EWAR, as you cannot jump back through the gate if you are aggression flagged.

Bustard Deep Space Transport (DST):
* Always carry 1 Expanded Cargohold II with you and swap the Damage Control II as needed.
* Optionally carry 2 'Halycon' Warp Core Stabilizer I and swap out Expanded Cargohold II as needed.
* Optionally carry a Large Shield Extender II and swap out the MWD if you don't need it (mining ops).
* Optionally carry a Small Tractor Beam II and swap out the cloak as needed (mining ops).
* Don't use T2 rigs, unless you never leave hisec. The Bustard is easier to catch than a Crane.

I currently own 4 Crane, 5 Bustard, 5 Charon, and 4 Rhea, so I guess you could say I like Caldari industrials. I've never lost a Crane. I've had a Bustard attacked once (hit a small mobile bubble dropped by a Hurricane) but escaped.


[Crane, Basic]
Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I
Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I

Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I

Covert Cloaking Device II

Medium Cargohold Optimization II
Medium Cargohold Optimization II


[Bustard, Basic]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Damage Control II

Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II

Improved Cloaking Device II

Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#14 - 2012-01-19 21:28:15 UTC
Brotha Umad wrote:
Maybe the mids could make you survivable if you did not wasted them. ECM burst on a ship without bonus : 6 km range. Not only you need to be tackled by someone who camps gates with a scrambler, you also need him to noobishly orbit you very close as to get under you nonexistant guns. Not to mention that it is still a chance based module.


Sorry but this made me LOL a bit. Honestly there are only a few ways a blockade runner is going to get caught. Most of these ways require someone (usually the tackler) getting in close enough to decloak you. So I wouldn't consider that a "noobish" move.

Yes it is chance based. Yes it is short range. But I have had a burst save me once. It was a WH noctis in that case. either way I'd rather throw a cheap ECM burst in the mid than nothing.



Brotha Umad wrote:
Dampeners for long range points ? Well why not, if you can find an enemy that can't target past 24km when dampened, and more importantly, that will not pop you even before you lock him.



This I would agree with. If you are sticking around long enough to get a lock, you are dead anyway.
ASadOldGit
School of Applied Knowledge
#15 - 2012-01-22 04:05:39 UTC
I hope this is not off-topic for this thread, but a brief word on tactics might be useful.

Although it may seem obvious to fly cloaked with a covops hauler Roll, some people seem to think it's safe to fly uncloaked in highsec, and only start cloaking in lowsec.

Well, I always assume that good campers are going to have a cloaked scout on the highsec boundary (and they may even have passive scanners on gates further out :tinfoil-hat: ), so the less intel you give them the better - always fly into a boundary gate cloaked, so their first inkling of your existence is a flash and gate activation. They won't know if it's a Buzzard, Crane or a Falcon - every second counts.

It's good practice anyway - make the align/cloak actions become second nature, and always be prepared for the gate approach to be screwed up - "You cannot jump because you are cloaked" can be a nasty surprise if you're surrounded by reds Shocked

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